Re: Proleptic Gregorian (was Re: Functions add/diff/cmp for xtime)

Antoine Leca wrote: . . . TIME_TAI *or* TIME_UTC (as defined by Markus, with the added point that the calendar should be the proleptic Gregorian). Markus Kuhn replied: Question: What precisely does "proleptic" mean and where is it defined? . . . (I suspect it means "extended before the time it was defined", but would like to get a confirmation and reference.) Short answer: My understanding agrees with Markus's suspicion. Longer answer: I looked up the word in two respected American English dictionaries: the Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary (1985), and the American Heritage Dictionary (New College Edition, 1976). Webster's New Collegiate defines "prolepsis" (a noun) as "the represen- tation or assumption of a future act or development as if presently existing or accomplished", or "the application of an adjective to a noun in anticipation of the result of the action of the verb". "Proleptic" is listed as the corresponding adjective. The American Heritage defines "prolepsis" as "the anticipation and answering of an objection or argument before one's opponent has put it forward", or "the use of a descriptive word in anticipation of the act or circumstances that would make it applicable". It lists both "pro- leptic" and "proleptical" as adjective forms. Both dictionaries say the word is derived from Greek "prolambanein" (to take beforehand) < "pro-" (before) + "lambanein" (to take). Webster's New Collegiate says the first recorded use of the word in English was in 1578. So, the "proleptic Gregorian" calendar would be the result of extending the Gregorian calendar back into the past, before it came into use in a given location, or even before it was invented. My sense (as an educated native speaker of American English) is that "proleptic" and "prolepsis" are not commonly known or used by the aver- age English-speaking person. English is, of course, replete with such words, known primarily by authors, orators, and Scrabble players. Rich Wales richw@webcom.com http://www.webcom.com/richw/

In message <19981007143137.16242.richw@webcom.com>, Rich Wales <richw@webcom.com> writes
Question: What precisely does "proleptic" mean and where is it defined? . . . (I suspect it means "extended before the time it was defined", but would like to get a confirmation and reference.)
My sense (as an educated native speaker of American English) is that "proleptic" and "prolepsis" are not commonly known or used by the aver- age English-speaking person.
Agreed. But when I came across the term it was so *right*. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Regulation Officer, LINX | Work: <clive@linx.org> Tel: +44 1733 705000 | (on secondment from | Home: <cdwf@i.am> Fax: +44 1733 353929 | Demon Internet) | <http://i.am/davros> Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:55:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Wales <richw@webcom.com> So, the "proleptic Gregorian" calendar would be the result of extending the Gregorian calendar back into the past, before it came into use in a given location, or even before it was invented. Actually, you've got it backwards. Strictly speaking, the proleptic Gregorian calendar refers to the future, not to the past. That is, we assume that the Gregorian calendar will be used indefinitely into the future. The term ``proleptic'' is a misnomer when applied to backwards extrapolation of a calendar, since the term ``proleptic'' refers to the future, not the past. However, this misnomer is in common use among the calendrical cognoscenti. This point is covered in footnote 4 on page 35 of the following reference: Nachum Dershowitz and Edward M Reingold Calendrical Calculations Cambridge University Press (1997)

Paul Eggert writes:
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:55:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Wales <richw@webcom.com>
So, the "proleptic Gregorian" calendar would be the result of extending the Gregorian calendar back into the past, before it came into use in a given location, or even before it was invented.
Actually, you've got it backwards. Strictly speaking, the proleptic Gregorian calendar refers to the future, not to the past. That is, we assume that the Gregorian calendar will be used indefinitely into the future. The term ``proleptic'' is a misnomer when applied to backwards extrapolation of a calendar, since the term ``proleptic'' refers to the future, not the past.
My Random House says (among many other things): 1. The anachronistic representation of something as existing before its proper or historical time, as in the precolonial United States. Nathan Myers ncm@cantrip.org
participants (4)
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Clive D.W. Feather
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Nathan Myers
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Paul Eggert
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Rich Wales