I happened to notice that the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Subtitle A, Part 71, Section 71.12 states "...the Hawaii-Aleutian standard time zone, includes the entire State of Hawaii and, in the State of Alaska, that part of the Aleutian Islands that is west of 169 degrees 30 minutes west longitude." The America/Adak Zone data include this change, but the Pacific/Honolulu Zone data do not. Hank Wisniewski, Austin, Texas, U.S.A.
Hank W. wrote:
I happened to notice that the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Subtitle A, Part 71, Section 71.12 states "...the Hawaii-Aleutian standard time zone, includes the entire State of Hawaii and, in the State of Alaska, that part of the Aleutian Islands that is west of 169 degrees 30 minutes west longitude."
The America/Adak Zone data include this change, but the Pacific/Honolulu Zone data do not.
Sorry, I don't understand what the phrase "this change" refers to, but I suppose you're thinking that Hawaii's time zone abbreviation should change? If so, that federal regulation no doubt comes from 15 U.S. Code §263 <https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/263>, which designates the time zone as "Hawaii-Aleutian standard time". Hawaii had already observing this time zone well before this federal name was introduced in 1983, and popular usage still seems to prefer "Hawaii Standard Time" and/or "HST" to designate it, even in government web sites. For example, see: http://help.waterdata.usgs.gov/code/tz_query https://www.fema.gov/disaster/1664/news http://oimt.hawaii.gov/procurement/ http://labor.hawaii.gov/ui/faq/ We prefer popular to "official" English-language usage, when it can be determined, so "HST" seems to be the way to go for Hawaii's time even if the official federal full name for the time zone includes an "-Aleutian".
It's also worth mentioning that despite sharing the same standard time zone offset of UTC-10, the Aleutian Islands switch to UTC-9 for daylight saving time and Hawaii does not. Also, it's quite reasonable that people in Hawaii would not associate themselves with the Aleutian Islands, as they are separated by more than 2,300 Miles.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:48:09 -0700 From: eggert@cs.ucla.edu To: hankw1@austin.rr.com; tz@iana.org Subject: Re: [tz] Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time
Hank W. wrote:
I happened to notice that the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Subtitle A, Part 71, Section 71.12 states "...the Hawaii-Aleutian standard time zone, includes the entire State of Hawaii and, in the State of Alaska, that part of the Aleutian Islands that is west of 169 degrees 30 minutes west longitude."
The America/Adak Zone data include this change, but the Pacific/Honolulu Zone data do not.
Sorry, I don't understand what the phrase "this change" refers to, but I suppose you're thinking that Hawaii's time zone abbreviation should change? If so, that federal regulation no doubt comes from 15 U.S. Code §263 <https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/263>, which designates the time zone as "Hawaii-Aleutian standard time". Hawaii had already observing this time zone well before this federal name was introduced in 1983, and popular usage still seems to prefer "Hawaii Standard Time" and/or "HST" to designate it, even in government web sites. For example, see:
http://help.waterdata.usgs.gov/code/tz_query https://www.fema.gov/disaster/1664/news http://oimt.hawaii.gov/procurement/ http://labor.hawaii.gov/ui/faq/
We prefer popular to "official" English-language usage, when it can be determined, so "HST" seems to be the way to go for Hawaii's time even if the official federal full name for the time zone includes an "-Aleutian".
On 17 April 2015 at 11:48, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
The America/Adak Zone data include this change, but the Pacific/Honolulu
Zone data do not.
Sorry, I don't understand what the phrase "this change" refers to, but I suppose you're thinking that Hawaii's time zone abbreviation should change?
Yeah, although I have seen HAST used to refer to time in Hawaiʻi, I've seen HST much more commonly. On 17 April 2015 at 12:08, Matt Johnson <mj1856@hotmail.com> wrote:
Also, it's quite reasonable that people in Hawaii would not associate themselves with the Aleutian Islands, as they are separated by more than 2,300 Miles.
By the same token, it's reasonable that people in the Aleutian Islands wouldn't associate themselves with Hawaiʻi! (But, alas, AST/ADT is already taken on the other side of the continent.) -- Tim Parenti
On 04/17/2015 10:34 AM, Tim Parenti wrote:
By the same token, it's reasonable that people in the Aleutian Islands wouldn't associate themselves with Hawaiʻi!
There aren't too many people in Adak to ask (2010 census population 326), which is not too surprising as it is an area affected by “frequent cyclonic winds with gusts in excess of 100 knots, fog storms, an average accumulated snowfall of 100 inches, earthquakes, a nearby active volcano, rain more than 260 days per year, and tsunamis, and in an area saturated with active bombs and infested with large rats". See: Boliek B. Reforms may cut broadband to remote areas. Politico 2012-06-12 <http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77350.html>. I looked for local sources. The Alaska Dept of Environmental Conservation uses "Hawaii-Aleutian time zone" with no abbreviation; e.g., see <https://dec.alaska.gov/spar/perp/response/sum_fy10/100111201/100111201_index...>. The city of Adak itself doesn't seem to use any name or abbreviation for the time zone. The English Wikipedia page for Adak gives the abbreviation "HST" for "Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time"; this was inserted by a bot in 2007 (see <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adak,_Alaska&diff=162933653&oldid=...>) and nobody has changed it since then. The U.S. Government Government Printing Office Style Manual (2008) says that the abbreviation for "Hawaii-Aleutian standard time" is "HST" and similarly "HDT" for daylight time; see p. 234 of <http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-STYLEMANUAL-2008/pdf/GPO-STYLEMANUAL-2008.p...>. On the net I find lots of sources using "HAST" and lots using "HST" for standard time in the Aleutians. Many of the former sources seem to be influenced by the tz database, and to some extent that doesn't count. So it sounds like we should switch to "HST", as it's more official/authentic/whatever. A proposed patch is attached.
That's an amazing quote! (from the Politico article) Do they put that in the travel brochures? :) Seriously though - is there any good reason to do this? HAST/HADT are in the CLDR also:http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/timezones.north_america.html#1...
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2015 11:56:23 -0700 From: eggert@cs.ucla.edu To: tim@timtimeonline.com; mj1856@hotmail.com CC: hankw1@austin.rr.com; tz@iana.org Subject: Re: [tz] Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time
On 04/17/2015 10:34 AM, Tim Parenti wrote:
By the same token, it's reasonable that people in the Aleutian Islands wouldn't associate themselves with Hawaiʻi!
There aren't too many people in Adak to ask (2010 census population 326), which is not too surprising as it is an area affected by “frequent cyclonic winds with gusts in excess of 100 knots, fog storms, an average accumulated snowfall of 100 inches, earthquakes, a nearby active volcano, rain more than 260 days per year, and tsunamis, and in an area saturated with active bombs and infested with large rats". See: Boliek B. Reforms may cut broadband to remote areas. Politico 2012-06-12 <http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77350.html>.
I looked for local sources. The Alaska Dept of Environmental Conservation uses "Hawaii-Aleutian time zone" with no abbreviation; e.g., see <https://dec.alaska.gov/spar/perp/response/sum_fy10/100111201/100111201_index...>.
The city of Adak itself doesn't seem to use any name or abbreviation for the time zone.
The English Wikipedia page for Adak gives the abbreviation "HST" for "Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time"; this was inserted by a bot in 2007 (see <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adak,_Alaska&diff=162933653&oldid=...>) and nobody has changed it since then.
The U.S. Government Government Printing Office Style Manual (2008) says that the abbreviation for "Hawaii-Aleutian standard time" is "HST" and similarly "HDT" for daylight time; see p. 234 of <http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-STYLEMANUAL-2008/pdf/GPO-STYLEMANUAL-2008.p...>.
On the net I find lots of sources using "HAST" and lots using "HST" for standard time in the Aleutians. Many of the former sources seem to be influenced by the tz database, and to some extent that doesn't count. So it sounds like we should switch to "HST", as it's more official/authentic/whatever. A proposed patch is attached.
On Apr 17, 2015, at 1:05 PM, Matt Johnson <mj1856@hotmail.com> wrote:
Seriously though - is there any good reason to do this?
Conformance to the style manual of the printing office of the federal government of the nation to which both Hawaii and part of the Aleutian Islands belong?
HAST/HADT are in the CLDR also: http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/timezones.north_america.html#1... http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/timezones.north_america.html#3...
As Paul said:
On the net I find lots of sources using "HAST" and lots using "HST" for standard time in the Aleutians. Many of the former sources seem to be influenced by the tz database, and to some extent that doesn't count.
and I suspect the CLDR took those abbreviations from the tz database.
On 04/17/2015 01:05 PM, Matt Johnson wrote:
HAST/HADT are in the CLDR also:
I expect CLDR got those abbreviations from us, so they're not really an independent source. It seemed to me that independent sources seem to prefer HST/HDT whereas sources derived from the tz database of course prefer HAST/HADT as that is what we are using. This isn't a good situation: the tz database should reflect common usage, not set it. Although the GPO style manual was the tipping point for me, plenty of other sources outside tz's orbit use HST/HDT, or call it "Hawaii time" even though it's in the Aleutians. It's not just the Wikipedia page for Adak. See, for example: http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/localtime.cfm http://www.orneveien.org/adak/ http://www.statoids.com/tus.html http://alaska.hometownlocator.com/ak/aleutians-west-ca/adak.cfm
On 17-Apr-2015, Paul Eggert wrote:
Hank W. wrote:
I happened to notice that the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Subtitle A, Part 71, Section 71.12 states "...the Hawaii-Aleutian standard time zone, includes the entire State of Hawaii and, in the State of Alaska, that part of the Aleutian Islands that is west of 169 degrees 30 minutes west longitude."
The America/Adak Zone data include this change, but the Pacific/Honolulu Zone data do not.
Sorry, I don't understand what the phrase "this change" refers to, but I suppose you're thinking that Hawaii's time zone abbreviation should change? If so, that federal regulation no doubt comes from 15 U.S. Code §263 <https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/263>, which designates the time zone as "Hawaii-Aleutian standard time". Hawaii had already observing this time zone well before this federal name was introduced in 1983, and popular usage still seems to prefer "Hawaii Standard Time" and/or "HST" to designate it, even in government web sites. For example, see:
http://help.waterdata.usgs.gov/code/tz_query https://www.fema.gov/disaster/1664/news http://oimt.hawaii.gov/procurement/ http://labor.hawaii.gov/ui/faq/
We prefer popular to "official" English-language usage, when it can be determined, so "HST" seems to be the way to go for Hawaii's time even if the official federal full name for the time zone includes an "-Aleutian".
However, also see this official US government web page from the U.S. Naval Observatory: http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/timer.pl Dave C.
participants (6)
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Dave Cantor -
Guy Harris -
Hank W. -
Matt Johnson -
Paul Eggert -
Tim Parenti