Re: Time Zones changes in Argentina
Thanks for your letter. The tz files acquired some incorrect data about Argentine time from the 3rd edition of Shanks's International Atlas. I now see that the 5th edition corrects this; I'd missed this earlier.
From what I understand, here are the changes that I think need making with respect to Argentine time.
* No DST was observed from mid-1974 through mid-1988. * 1966/1967 DST ended on 1967-04-02, not 1967-04-01. * Argentine standard time was introduced 1894-10-31, not 1894-11-01. * Argentine standard time from 1894-10-31 through 1920-04-30 was -4:16:48.25, not -4:16:44. * Rosario and Cordoba have the same time zone history since 1970, so we should mark the America/Rosario Zone as obsolescent. * Many of the transition dates in 1991 and 1992 are incorrect. If you see any problems with these changes, please let me know. It appears that there was widespread disagreement about the clocks in Argentina in 1991 and 1992. Shanks also indicates that we may need up to six more regions in Argentina, as he makes the following additional claims: - Formosa switched to -3:00 on 1991-01-07. - La Rioja and San Juan switched to -4:00 on 1991-03-01 and then to 03:00 on 1991-05-07. - Misiones switched to -3:00 on 1990-12-29. - Chaco switched to -3:00 on 1991-01-04. - San Luis switched to -4:00 on 1990-03-14, then to -3:00 on 1990-10-15, then to -4:00 on 1991-03-01, then to -3:00 on 1991-06-01. - Santiago del Estero switched to -4:00 on 1991-04-01, then to -3:00 on 1991-04-26. However, his claims are a bit odd, and his data about this confusing area seem to peter out around 1992 even though the book was published in 1999. I think I'll defer adding Zones for each of these regions until we get more info. If you're interested, here is the draft of some revised tables for Argentina. I'll included these in my next proposed patch. # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule Arg 1930 only - Dec 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1931 only - Apr 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1931 only - Oct 15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1932 1940 - Mar 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1932 1939 - Nov 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1940 only - Jul 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1941 only - Jun 15 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1941 only - Oct 15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1943 only - Aug 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1943 only - Oct 15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1946 only - Mar 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1946 only - Oct 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1963 only - Oct 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1963 only - Dec 15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1964 1966 - Mar 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1964 1966 - Oct 15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1967 only - Apr 2 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1967 1968 - Oct Sun>=1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1968 1969 - Apr Sun>=1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1974 only - Jan 23 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1974 only - May 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1988 only - Dec 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1989 1993 - Mar Sun>=1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1989 1992 - Oct Sun>=15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1999 only - Oct Sun>=1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 2000 only - Mar Sun>=1 0:00 0 - # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] # # Buenos Aires (BA), Capital Federal (CF), Santa Cruz (SC), # Tierra del Fuego, Antartida e Islas del Atlantico Sur (TF) Zone America/Buenos_Aires -3:53:48 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 -4:16:48 - CMT 1920 May # Cordoba Mean Time -4:00 - ART 1930 Dec -4:00 Arg AR%sT 1969 Oct 5 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Santa Fe (SF), Entre Rios (ER), Corrientes (CN), Misiones (MN), Chaco (CC), # Formosa (FM), Salta (SA), Tucuman (TM), Santiago del Estero (SE), # Cordoba (CB), La Rioja (LR), San Juan (SJ), San Luis (SL), La Pampa (LP), # Neuquen (NQ), Rio Negro (RN), Chubut (CH) Zone America/Cordoba -4:16:48 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 -4:16:48 - CMT 1920 May -4:00 - ART 1930 Dec -4:00 Arg AR%sT 1969 Oct 5 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1991 Mar 3 -4:00 - WART 1991 Oct 20 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Jujuy (JY) Zone America/Jujuy -4:21:12 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 -4:16:48 - CMT 1920 May -4:00 - ART 1930 Dec -4:00 Arg AR%sT 1969 Oct 5 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1990 Mar 4 -4:00 - WART 1990 Oct 28 -4:00 1:00 WARST 1991 Mar 17 -4:00 - WART 1991 Oct 6 -3:00 1:00 ARST 1992 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Catamarca (CT) Zone America/Catamarca -4:23:08 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 -4:16:48 - CMT 1920 May -4:00 - ART 1930 Dec -4:00 Arg AR%sT 1969 Oct 5 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1991 Mar 3 -4:00 - WART 1991 Oct 20 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Mendoza (MZ) Zone America/Mendoza -4:35:16 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 -4:16:48 - CMT 1920 May -4:00 - ART 1930 Dec -4:00 Arg AR%sT 1969 Oct 5 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1990 Mar 4 -4:00 - WART 1990 Oct 15 -4:00 1:00 WARST 1991 Mar 1 -4:00 - WART 1991 Oct 15 -4:00 1:00 WARST 1992 Mar 1 -4:00 - WART 1992 Oct 18 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART
Hi Paul, I don't have any sound data about the late 80's, early 90's changes. I'm no astrnomer and never read Shanks, but what you state here is quite possible. What I remember from those days (I was in highschool then) was than there was a presidential decree creating a DST of -02:00 in the (southern) summer, but some western Provinces out of real problems (the geographical timezone of Argentina is more like -04:00 than the current -03:00) claimed that they wouldn't apply the decree (using their constitutional provincial autonomy) and, after that, all Provinces with a Provincial government of a different political party than the Federal government, did the same. After some months only the Federal District (Ciudad de Buenos Aires) and the then Federal Territory of Tierra del Fuego (now a Province) were at -04:00, with great problems since the urban region adjacent to the Ciudad de Buenos Aires (called the Gran Buenos Aires) belongs to the Provincia de Buenos Aires and is not part of the Federal District and was at a different timezone that the District itself, with lots of people living in one and working in the other. Eventually, everyone went back to -03:00 without DST. All this means that there is a high possibility of a few days differences for DST adoption/cancellation in different Provinces during those days. If somebody knows of an official source in Spanish, I can review it and translate it. Javier, si tienes buena información en español y quieres que la traduzca al inglés para la lista, sólo enviámela. El 22 Jan 2002 a las 22:10, Paul Eggert escribió:
Thanks for your letter. The tz files acquired some incorrect data about Argentine time from the 3rd edition of Shanks's International Atlas. I now see that the 5th edition corrects this; I'd missed this earlier.
From what I understand, here are the changes that I think need making with respect to Argentine time.
* No DST was observed from mid-1974 through mid-1988.
* 1966/1967 DST ended on 1967-04-02, not 1967-04-01.
* Argentine standard time was introduced 1894-10-31, not 1894-11-01.
* Argentine standard time from 1894-10-31 through 1920-04-30 was -4:16:48.25, not -4:16:44.
* Rosario and Cordoba have the same time zone history since 1970, so we should mark the America/Rosario Zone as obsolescent.
* Many of the transition dates in 1991 and 1992 are incorrect.
If you see any problems with these changes, please let me know.
It appears that there was widespread disagreement about the clocks in Argentina in 1991 and 1992. Shanks also indicates that we may need up to six more regions in Argentina, as he makes the following additional claims:
- Formosa switched to -3:00 on 1991-01-07. - La Rioja and San Juan switched to -4:00 on 1991-03-01 and then to 03:00 on 1991-05-07. - Misiones switched to -3:00 on 1990-12-29. - Chaco switched to -3:00 on 1991-01-04. - San Luis switched to -4:00 on 1990-03-14, then to -3:00 on 1990-10-15, then to -4:00 on 1991-03-01, then to -3:00 on 1991-06-01. - Santiago del Estero switched to -4:00 on 1991-04-01, then to -3:00 on 1991-04-26.
However, his claims are a bit odd, and his data about this confusing area seem to peter out around 1992 even though the book was published in 1999. I think I'll defer adding Zones for each of these regions until we get more info.
If you're interested, here is the draft of some revised tables for Argentina. I'll included these in my next proposed patch.
# Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule Arg 1930 only - Dec 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1931 only - Apr 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1931 only - Oct 15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1932 1940 - Mar 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1932 1939 - Nov 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1940 only - Jul 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1941 only - Jun 15 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1941 only - Oct 15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1943 only - Aug 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1943 only - Oct 15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1946 only - Mar 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1946 only - Oct 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1963 only - Oct 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1963 only - Dec 15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1964 1966 - Mar 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1964 1966 - Oct 15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1967 only - Apr 2 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1967 1968 - Oct Sun>=1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1968 1969 - Apr Sun>=1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1974 only - Jan 23 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1974 only - May 1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1988 only - Dec 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1989 1993 - Mar Sun>=1 0:00 0 - Rule Arg 1989 1992 - Oct Sun>=15 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 1999 only - Oct Sun>=1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 2000 only - Mar Sun>=1 0:00 0 -
# Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] # # Buenos Aires (BA), Capital Federal (CF), Santa Cruz (SC), # Tierra del Fuego, Antartida e Islas del Atlantico Sur (TF) Zone America/Buenos_Aires -3:53:48 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 -4:16:48 - CMT 1920 May # Cordoba Mean Time -4:00 - ART 1930 Dec -4:00 Arg AR%sT 1969 Oct 5 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Santa Fe (SF), Entre Rios (ER), Corrientes (CN), Misiones (MN), Chaco (CC), # Formosa (FM), Salta (SA), Tucuman (TM), Santiago del Estero (SE), # Cordoba (CB), La Rioja (LR), San Juan (SJ), San Luis (SL), La Pampa (LP), # Neuquen (NQ), Rio Negro (RN), Chubut (CH) Zone America/Cordoba -4:16:48 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 -4:16:48 - CMT 1920 May -4:00 - ART 1930 Dec -4:00 Arg AR%sT 1969 Oct 5 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1991 Mar 3 -4:00 - WART 1991 Oct 20 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Jujuy (JY) Zone America/Jujuy -4:21:12 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 -4:16:48 - CMT 1920 May -4:00 - ART 1930 Dec -4:00 Arg AR%sT 1969 Oct 5 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1990 Mar 4 -4:00 - WART 1990 Oct 28 -4:00 1:00 WARST 1991 Mar 17 -4:00 - WART 1991 Oct 6 -3:00 1:00 ARST 1992 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Catamarca (CT) Zone America/Catamarca -4:23:08 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 -4:16:48 - CMT 1920 May -4:00 - ART 1930 Dec -4:00 Arg AR%sT 1969 Oct 5 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1991 Mar 3 -4:00 - WART 1991 Oct 20 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Mendoza (MZ) Zone America/Mendoza -4:35:16 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 -4:16:48 - CMT 1920 May -4:00 - ART 1930 Dec -4:00 Arg AR%sT 1969 Oct 5 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1990 Mar 4 -4:00 - WART 1990 Oct 15 -4:00 1:00 WARST 1991 Mar 1 -4:00 - WART 1991 Oct 15 -4:00 1:00 WARST 1992 Mar 1 -4:00 - WART 1992 Oct 18 -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART
-- Mariano Absatz - El Baby mailto:baby@baby.com.ar http://www.baby.com.ar/ PGP KEYS: http://www.baby.com.ar/datos/personales.html#claves_pgp |\ _ _\\/'> Powered by Pegasus Mail /|__) http://www.pmail.com ) )\
Hi again Paul, now that I browse your proposed changes I see that the change to DST that was to happen in 1999/2000 (and never came to life, see the thread "Changes in Argentina (or not)" starting June 6, 2001) are still reflected in the tables. In fact, there are 2 entries in EVERY zone in Argentina of the form:
-3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3
to cancel the effect of the rules:
Rule Arg 1999 only - Oct Sun>=1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 2000 only - Mar Sun>=1 0:00 0 -
Wouldn't it be more simple to just erase all of them (including the rules, obviously)? El 22 Jan 2002 a las 22:10, Paul Eggert escribió:
If you're interested, here is the draft of some revised tables for Argentina. I'll included these in my next proposed patch.
# Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S
...
Rule Arg 1999 only - Oct Sun>=1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 2000 only - Mar Sun>=1 0:00 0 -
# Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] # # Buenos Aires (BA), Capital Federal (CF), Santa Cruz (SC), # Tierra del Fuego, Antartida e Islas del Atlantico Sur (TF) Zone America/Buenos_Aires -3:53:48 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 ... -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Santa Fe (SF), Entre Rios (ER), Corrientes (CN), Misiones (MN), Chaco (CC), # Formosa (FM), Salta (SA), Tucuman (TM), Santiago del Estero (SE), # Cordoba (CB), La Rioja (LR), San Juan (SJ), San Luis (SL), La Pampa (LP), # Neuquen (NQ), Rio Negro (RN), Chubut (CH) Zone America/Cordoba -4:16:48 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 ... -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Jujuy (JY) Zone America/Jujuy -4:21:12 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 ... -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Catamarca (CT) Zone America/Catamarca -4:23:08 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 ... -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART # # Mendoza (MZ) Zone America/Mendoza -4:35:16 - LMT 1894 Oct 31 ... -3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3 -3:00 - ART
-- Mariano Absatz - El Baby mailto:baby@baby.com.ar http://www.baby.com.ar/ PGP KEYS: http://www.baby.com.ar/datos/personales.html#claves_pgp |\ _ _\\/'> Powered by Pegasus Mail /|__) http://www.pmail.com ) )\
From: "Mariano Absatz" <baby@baby.com.ar> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:39:00 -0300
now that I browse your proposed changes I see that the change to DST that was to happen in 1999/2000 (and never came to life, see the thread "Changes in Argentina (or not)" starting June 6, 2001) are still reflected in the tables.
In fact, there are 2 entries in EVERY zone in Argentina of the form:
-3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3
to cancel the effect of the rules:
Rule Arg 1999 only - Oct Sun>=1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 2000 only - Mar Sun>=1 0:00 0 -
Wouldn't it be more simple to just erase all of them (including the rules, obviously)?
Yes, thanks, that would simplify the tables, and it wouldn't affect the offset from UTC; but it would be a change nevertheless. It would change both the time zone abbreviation ("ART" versus "ARST") and the indicator of whether daylight-saving time was in effect at the time (tm_isdst, in the C programming language). My impression is that the period in question was considered to be daylight-saving time. That is why the tables are written the way they are. If I'm wrong about that, please let me know.
AFAIK, as the 1999 Timezone Law was never effective, so there was no DST applied during that period... El 1 Feb 2002 a las 21:15, Paul Eggert escribió:
From: "Mariano Absatz" <baby@baby.com.ar> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:39:00 -0300
now that I browse your proposed changes I see that the change to DST that was to happen in 1999/2000 (and never came to life, see the thread "Changes in Argentina (or not)" starting June 6, 2001) are still reflected in the tables.
In fact, there are 2 entries in EVERY zone in Argentina of the form:
-3:00 Arg AR%sT 1999 Oct 3 -4:00 Arg AR%sT 2000 Mar 3
to cancel the effect of the rules:
Rule Arg 1999 only - Oct Sun>=1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Arg 2000 only - Mar Sun>=1 0:00 0 -
Wouldn't it be more simple to just erase all of them (including the rules, obviously)?
Yes, thanks, that would simplify the tables, and it wouldn't affect the offset from UTC; but it would be a change nevertheless. It would change both the time zone abbreviation ("ART" versus "ARST") and the indicator of whether daylight-saving time was in effect at the time (tm_isdst, in the C programming language).
My impression is that the period in question was considered to be daylight-saving time. That is why the tables are written the way they are. If I'm wrong about that, please let me know.
-- Mariano Absatz - El Baby mailto:baby@baby.com.ar http://www.baby.com.ar/ PGP KEYS: http://www.baby.com.ar/datos/personales.html#claves_pgp |\ _ _\\/'> Powered by Pegasus Mail /|__) http://www.pmail.com ) )\
From: "Mariano Absatz" <baby@baby.com.ar> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:43:14 -0300
AFAIK, as the 1999 Timezone Law was never effective, so there was no DST applied during that period...
If I understand the situation correctly, you're correct that the 1999 law did not affect the UTC offset: the clocks were always at offset -3:00 from UTC. However, my impression is that the law did declare that from 1999-10-03 through 2000-03-02 Argentina's standard UTC offset was changed from -3:00 to -4:00, and that daylight-saving time was in effect during that period. For most purposes the distinction is academic, as wall clocks didn't need to be changed. But the distiction sometimes matters. For example, an English-language "date" command should have printed "ARST" (not "ART") in Argentina during the period in question.
Alright, you might be right on that, and I didn't find further info today, so I just wrote to the Senator who wrote the 1999 Timezone Law asking him if the (southern) 1999/2000 summer is considered "Summer Time". I don't know if he'll answer, but maybe he does... just in case, I also asked him if he has a good source about the mess that happened in the early 90's (to kill two birds with one shot, as it's said in Spanish). I'll keep the list informed about my findings... El 4 Feb 2002 a las 11:03, Paul Eggert escribió:
From: "Mariano Absatz" <baby@baby.com.ar> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:43:14 -0300
AFAIK, as the 1999 Timezone Law was never effective, so there was no DST applied during that period...
If I understand the situation correctly, you're correct that the 1999 law did not affect the UTC offset: the clocks were always at offset -3:00 from UTC. However, my impression is that the law did declare that from 1999-10-03 through 2000-03-02 Argentina's standard UTC offset was changed from -3:00 to -4:00, and that daylight-saving time was in effect during that period.
For most purposes the distinction is academic, as wall clocks didn't need to be changed. But the distiction sometimes matters. For example, an English-language "date" command should have printed "ARST" (not "ART") in Argentina during the period in question.
-- Mariano Absatz - El Baby mailto:baby@baby.com.ar http://www.baby.com.ar/ PGP KEYS: http://www.baby.com.ar/datos/personales.html#claves_pgp |\ _ _\\/'> Powered by Pegasus Mail /|__) http://www.pmail.com ) )\ ----------------------------------------------------------- Life would be much easier if I had the source code.
participants (2)
-
Mariano Absatz
-
Paul Eggert