tzdata 2003e: imperfections
I found a couple of small imperfections in the tzdata files. asia file: Cyprus is now (May 01, 2004) part of the European Union. In spite of the interesting remarks for Cyprus in the tz data file, the Cyprus entry should be in the europe file. antarctica file: New Zealand: Rules are given, but no Zone information, so no actual time information. All files: GMT is obsolete. UTC should be used. Nearly all files, lots of entries: In some cases DST is no longer observed, but the Zone lines still mention a DST Rule. One example from the asia file (some information omitted by me): # Korea (North and South) ... # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule ROK 1960 only - May 15 0:00 1:00 D Rule ROK 1960 only - Sep 13 0:00 0 S Rule ROK 1987 1988 - May Sun<=14 0:00 1:00 D Rule ROK 1987 1988 - Oct Sun<=14 0:00 0 S # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Asia/Seoul 8:27:52 - LMT 1890 8:30 - KST 1904 Dec 9:00 - KST 1928 8:30 - KST 1932 9:00 - KST 1954 Mar 21 8:00 ROK K%sT 1961 Aug 10 8:30 - KST 1968 Oct 9:00 ROK K%sT ... Since South Korea no longer observes DST, it would be better for the consistency of the database if the last line was changed into: 9:00 ROK K%sT 1988 Oct and an extra line was added, like: 9:00 - KST The software will give the correct time for e.g. this moment I guess, because no Rule line can be found, valid for May 2004. So, changing the database files for this could get a low priority, but it is still an imperfection! Oscar van Vlijmen 2004-05-17
Oscar van Vlijmen scripsit:
asia file: Cyprus is now (May 01, 2004) part of the European Union. In spite of the interesting remarks for Cyprus in the tz data file, the Cyprus entry should be in the europe file.
Cyprus may be politically part of Europe, but geographically it remains part of Asia. I note that Israel, which is unquestionably an Asian country, participates in Eurovision. -- John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com www.reutershealth.com www.ccil.org/~cowan Heckler: "Go on, Al, tell 'em all you know. It won't take long." Al Smith: "I'll tell 'em all we *both* know. It won't take any longer."
John Cowan wrote on 2004-05-17 13:56 UTC:
Cyprus may be politically part of Europe, but geographically it remains part of Asia. I note that Israel, which is unquestionably an Asian country, participates in Eurovision.
Firstly, only the Greek half of Cyprus is in the European Union for now (the half that prevented the other half from getting in in a recent referendum). Secondly, it appears that some officials (e.g., Commissioner Verheugen) of what is now called the European Union are already contemplating for the far future wheter to invite various North African and Asian countries that border the Mediterranean Sea (Tunesia, Morocco, Libya, Algeria, Turkey, Jordan, Israel, and Palestine have been mentioned), as well as various former Soviet republics, including Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Moldova. So if the tz file split is meant to be geographic, then EU membership is clearly not a good reason to move entries around. Markus -- Markus Kuhn, Computer Lab, Univ of Cambridge, GB http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ | __oo_O..O_oo__
Cyprus: Indeed, _most_ people agree on _geographically_ part of Asia. Read e.g. the Wikipedia: " Cyprus is geographically in Southwest Asia, but Cypriots assert that they are a part of Europe. " <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus> But this is not an authoritative source.
From Paul Eggert: This shouldn't matter one way or the other to tz users, since Asia/Nicosia and Europe/Nicosia are aliases.
Cyprus nor Nicosia are mentioned clearly in the "europe" file. Anyhow, let's not get political, but practical, so: why not LINK or at least mention Cyprus clearly in the "europe" tz-file? In the "northamerica" file there is for instance a remark: " # See the `europe' file for Greenland. " A bit of crossreferencing can't do much harm I think. BTW, those interested in this discussion may also wish to read for instance Paul Eggert's email dated 2000-09-28, subject "Re: (Cyprus), Nicosia is in Europe not Asia." See the tz mail archive. Oscar van Vlijmen 2004-05-17
Oscar van Vlijmen <ovv@hetnet.nl> writes:
In the "northamerica" file there is for instance a remark: " # See the `europe' file for Greenland. "
A bit of crossreferencing can't do much harm I think.
Yes, that makes sense; I'll include a cross reference in my next proposed patch.
Oscar van Vlijmen <ovv@hetnet.nl> writes:
Cyprus is now (May 01, 2004) part of the European Union. In spite of the interesting remarks for Cyprus in the tz data file, the Cyprus entry should be in the europe file.
This shouldn't matter one way or the other to tz users, since Asia/Nicosia and Europe/Nicosia are aliases. Personally I'm a traditionalist so I'd rather leave it be.
antarctica file: New Zealand: Rules are given, but no Zone information, so no actual time information.
The NZAQ rules are defined and used in the antarctica file, so I don't see a problem here. (There's a separate copy of the NZ rules here so that the antarctica file can stand alone.)
GMT is obsolete. UTC should be used.
Which specific uses of "GMT" are you objecting to here? Some instances of "GMT" are correct, e.g. in winter Europe/London users prefer the "date" command to output the string "GMT", not "UTC". By and large the tz database attempts to support common English-language usage, even if it's not strictly "correct". There's another problem I should mention at some point: Calcutta officially changed its name to Kolkata on 2001-01-01, so the name "Asia/Calcutta" will become obsolescent at some point. Altavista reports 589,792 hits for Calcutta and only 194,498 for Kolkata, so the name-change hasn't really "taken" yet. We have similar naming problems in Greenland and Vietnam so I suppose we can live with one more such problem for a while. There are virtues to having stable names, even if they're "wrong" by some official measure.
GMT is obsolete. UTC should be used.
In reply to Paul Eggert's remarks:
Which specific uses of "GMT" are you objecting to here?
Obviously "none" if the wordings in the tz files are indeed according to:
By and large the tz database attempts to support common English-language usage, even if it's not strictly "correct".
Old and universal problem: if you use the correct or latest terms, 'no one' knows how to use it...... Oscar van Vlijmen 2004-05-17
Paul Eggert said:
GMT is obsolete. UTC should be used.
Which specific uses of "GMT" are you objecting to here?
Some instances of "GMT" are correct, e.g. in winter Europe/London users prefer the "date" command to output the string "GMT", not "UTC". By and large the tz database attempts to support common English-language usage, even if it's not strictly "correct".
That use of "GMT" is not just what the users prefer, it is *correct*. Time in the UK is defined, in statute, as Mean Time at Greenwich. An attempt to alter this to UTC *was rejected* by Parliament. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Work: <clive@demon.net> | Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 Internet Expert | Home: <clive@davros.org> | Fax: +44 870 051 9937 Demon Internet | WWW: http://www.davros.org | Mobile: +44 7973 377646 Thus plc | |
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote on 2004-05-18 07:05 UTC:
Time in the UK is defined, in statute, as Mean Time at Greenwich. An attempt to alter this to UTC *was rejected* by Parliament.
Was it actually rejected by vote, or was it just forgotten about because of the (to most parlamentarians) obscure nature of the topic? I know about the transcript of the second reading of Lord Tanlaw's proposal on http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199798/ldhansrd/vo970611/text/706... but was there any further voting on it? Markus -- Markus Kuhn, Computer Lab, Univ of Cambridge, GB http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ | __oo_O..O_oo__
Markus Kuhn said:
Time in the UK is defined, in statute, as Mean Time at Greenwich. An attempt to alter this to UTC *was rejected* by Parliament.
Was it actually rejected by vote, or was it just forgotten about because of the (to most parlamentarians) obscure nature of the topic?
I believe it ran out of time. If Parliament had wanted it, they could have offered it more time. So I take that as rejected, even if there wasn't a specific vote. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Work: <clive@demon.net> | Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 Internet Expert | Home: <clive@davros.org> | Fax: +44 870 051 9937 Demon Internet | WWW: http://www.davros.org | Mobile: +44 7973 377646 Thus plc | |
Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
That use of "GMT" is not just what the users prefer, it is *correct*.
Time in the UK is defined, in statute, as Mean Time at Greenwich. An attempt to alter this to UTC *was rejected* by Parliament.
And since Greenwich now goes on daylight savings, that is a good thing; a change would have confused current usage anyway.
From: "Oscar van Vlijmen" <ovv@hetnet.nl>
asia file: Cyprus is now (May 01, 2004) part of the European Union. In spite of the interesting remarks for Cyprus in the tz data file, the Cyprus entry should be in the europe file.
The tz mailing list had a discussion on this same subject in September, 2000. Most of the evidence produced at that time indicated that Cyprus is part of Asia. Personally, I don't care which continent it's in; the decision is clearly arbitrary (although there may be a political motivation). I just don't like changing things unless we have to. Yours, Gwillim Law
participants (7)
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Alex K. Angelopoulos -
Clive D.W. Feather -
Gwillim Law -
John Cowan -
Markus Kuhn -
Oscar van Vlijmen -
Paul Eggert