"American Academy of Sleep Medicine calls for elimination of daylight saving time" https://aasm.org/american-academy-of-sleep-medicine-calls-for-elimination-of... (Use your browser's vertical scroll bar to move through the article while avoiding an obscuring popup.) Noted on @Twitter by @AASMorg and retweeted by Jef Poskanzer (@JefPosk): https://twitter.com/AASMorg/status/1299334700478201858 @dash dashado
On 2020-08-28, at 16:23:38, Arthur David Olson wrote:
"American Academy of Sleep Medicine calls for elimination of daylight saving time"
https://aasm.org/american-academy-of-sleep-medicine-calls-for-elimination-of...
In arguing for an advantage of Standard over Daylight time the authors naively ignore that clock time is just a coordinate with arbitrary origin. In Matthew 20:1-16 KJV: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+20:1-16&version=KJV it appears that at the time of writing time was reckoned six hours behind the current convention: the first hour was around sunrise, people began work then; the eleventh hour around sunset, people ended work then. The harmful effects arise from the twice-yearly adjustment, not the absolute setting. -- gil
On 8/28/20 4:21 PM, Paul Gilmartin via tz wrote:
In arguing for an advantage of Standard over Daylight time the authors naively ignore that clock time is just a coordinate with arbitrary origin.
I don't see ignorance there. The position statement says (1) there's good evidence that twice-yearly changes are harmful, and (2) there's less-good but still good-enough evidence that year-round DST has health risks. Whether the first hour of work is labeled "3" (as in the Bible) or "8" or "9" is irrelevant to those statements; what matters is the time that workers arise, relative to the sun.
On 2020-08-29 07:21:58 (+0800), Paul Gilmartin via tz wrote:
On 2020-08-28, at 16:23:38, Arthur David Olson wrote:
"American Academy of Sleep Medicine calls for elimination of daylight saving time"
https://aasm.org/american-academy-of-sleep-medicine-calls-for-elimination-of...
In arguing for an advantage of Standard over Daylight time the authors naively ignore that clock time is just a coordinate with arbitrary origin. In Matthew 20:1-16 KJV: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+20:1-16&version=KJV it appears that at the time of writing time was reckoned six hours behind the current convention: the first hour was around sunrise, people began work then; the eleventh hour around sunset, people ended work then.
This system is still widely in use in Ethiopia (and reportedly in other parts of east Africa though I have no direct experience). If you have a meeting at "three o'clock" you should turn up at 10:00. The meeting will probably start at 10:30 ... possibly because you have to call at least one other person who thought the meeting was at 15:00. ;-) I believe there's a link to an article about this phenomenon in tz-links.html.
The harmful effects arise from the twice-yearly adjustment, not the absolute setting.
On a slightly related note, I wonder how those of us who were accustomed to regular large adjustments (e.g. 15 hours after crossing the Pacific Ocean) will cope when we resume our itinerant lifestyles when the current plague gets more under control? Will our bodies remember conquering jetlag, or will the first couple of trips be accompanied by sleepless nights and zombie days? Philip -- Philip Paeps Senior Reality Engineer Alternative Enterprises
On 8/28/20 6:25 PM, Philip Paeps wrote:
Will our bodies remember conquering jetlag, or will the first couple of trips be accompanied by sleepless nights and zombie days Although I used to fly east and west across the Pacific reasonably often, I never really conquered jetlag.
But my worst case of jetlag involved flying *north*. It was at the start of summer and the extra hours of sun zonked me more than moving the clock hands did. For a different kind of jetlag, try traveling *up*. See Jim Kelly's interview <https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/podcasting/askastronaut_kelly2_trans.html> and look for "jetlag".
在 2020年8月29日週六 09:26，Philip Paeps <philip@trouble.is> 寫道：
On 2020-08-29 07:21:58 (+0800), Paul Gilmartin via tz wrote:
On 2020-08-28, at 16:23:38, Arthur David Olson wrote:
"American Academy of Sleep Medicine calls for elimination of daylight saving time"
https://aasm.org/american-academy-of-sleep-medicine-calls-for-elimination-of...
In arguing for an advantage of Standard over Daylight time the authors naively ignore that clock time is just a coordinate with arbitrary origin. In Matthew 20:1-16 KJV:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+20:1-16&version=KJV
it appears that at the time of writing time was reckoned six hours behind the current convention: the first hour was around sunrise, people began work then; the eleventh hour around sunset, people ended work then.
This system is still widely in use in Ethiopia (and reportedly in other parts of east Africa though I have no direct experience). If you have a meeting at "three o'clock" you should turn up at 10:00. The meeting will probably start at 10:30 ... possibly because you have to call at least one other person who thought the meeting was at 15:00. ;-)
I believe there's a link to an article about this phenomenon in tz-links.html.
The harmful effects arise from the twice-yearly adjustment, not the absolute setting.
On a slightly related note, I wonder how those of us who were accustomed to regular large adjustments (e.g. 15 hours after crossing the Pacific Ocean) will cope when we resume our itinerant lifestyles when the current plague gets more under control? Will our bodies remember conquering jetlag, or will the first couple of trips be accompanied by sleepless nights and zombie days?
Philip
-- Philip Paeps Senior Reality Engineer Alternative Enterprises
I think what you described about the clock system in East Africa is a problem with naming of hours instead of actual time differences. It is just like how English call a month Octo-ber despite it's now generally accepted to be the tenth month of a year. Another thing of note is that 15-10 is not 6
On 29/08/2020 00:21, Paul Gilmartin via tz wrote:
The harmful effects arise from the twice-yearly adjustment, not the absolute setting.
The problem with all of this as Paul has noted is that sunrise changes continually throughout the year and from location to location, so the action of moving the only fixed element - time - is somewhat academic anyway? Our bodies respond to the light not the alarm clock :) NOT having to be in an office at 9AM during the present upheaval means that the forthcoming change will make little difference to many people and in reality it is just a matter of is there really any point in moving the clock at all? Over here school starting times are being staggered by year groups so spreading them over 'problem' times anyway ... in future just add a factor into that for 'sunrise'? Schools can be flexible based on there own sunlight conditions if they really think it is necessary? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - https://lsces.uk/wiki/Contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.uk Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.uk Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.uk
On 2020-08-28, at 19:25:37, Philip Paeps wrote:
... This system is still widely in use in Ethiopia (and reportedly in other parts of east Africa though I have no direct experience). If you have a meeting at "three o'clock" you should turn up at 10:00. The meeting will probably start at 10:30 ... possibly because you have to call at least one other person who thought the meeting was at 15:00. ;-)
I don't know the idiom, but I might expect the "first hour" to be tropical sunrise, 06:00, thus the "third hour" 08:00 (or 08:30). A half century ago I learned a similar Russian idiom; times from 08:01 to 08:59 were "one minute of the ninth hour" and "without one minute of the ninth hour".
I believe there's a link to an article about this phenomenon in tz-links.html.
Does it have a zoneinfo entry? -- gil
Paul Eggert wrote in <81dee870-e83b-69b5-5402-1bfafbcb7e50@cs.ucla.edu>: |On 8/28/20 6:25 PM, Philip Paeps wrote: |> Will our bodies remember conquering jetlag, or will the first couple \ |> of trips be |> accompanied by sleepless nights and zombie days |Although I used to fly east and west across the Pacific reasonably \ |often, I |never really conquered jetlag. | |But my worst case of jetlag involved flying *north*. It was at the \ |start of |summer and the extra hours of sun zonked me more than moving the clock \ |hands did. | |For a different kind of jetlag, try traveling *up*. See Jim Kelly's \ |interview |<https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/podcasting/askastronaut_kelly2_trans.ht\ |ml> and |look for "jetlag". Yes. Schools and education should do something useful and talk about and teach hygiene, desire for self-reflection, diet, endogenous hormone production (sports, sex), enable the capability of naming of environmental species, and other things that many non-western cultures cultivated. You maybe do not have to drink your own morning urine for proper (body) self-reflection, but i think "even that" gets more to the point of caring for and protecting the masses then not changing the clock twice a year, in my opinion. A nice weekend i wish, --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)
participants (7)
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Arthur David Olson -
Lester Caine -
Paul Eggert -
Paul Gilmartin -
Phake Nick -
Philip Paeps -
Steffen Nurpmeso