Hello. The Metlakatla community in Alaska has decided not to change its clock back an hour starting on November 4th, 2018 (day before yesterday). They will be gmtoff=-28800 year-round. I'm told this is the list to send this information to. Any assistance or advice on getting this updated in the database is appreciated. https://www.facebook.com/141055983004923/photos/pb.141055983004923.-22075200... [image: MIC time change.jpg] - Ryan _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ AKTechOps <http://serrc.org/techops> | techops@serrc.org | *(907) 523-7290* *| Brian 523-7248 | Michaela 523-7258 | Nate 523-7275 | Nick 523-7291 | Ryan 523-7272 | SERRC 586-6806 |*
Thanks for the heads-up. Proposed patch attached and installed into the tzdb development version, and something like this should appear in the next tzdb release. I don't know whether Metlakatla mayor Karl S. Cook Sr. knows, but it'd be helpful next time to give us more notice about this sort of thing. For details please see: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html#changes https://codeofmatt.com/2016/04/23/on-the-timing-of-time-zone-changes/
Is there an ETA for releasing this? Thanks, Debbie
On Nov 6, 2018, at 8:55 PM, Paul Eggert <eggert@CS.UCLA.EDU> wrote:
Thanks for the heads-up. Proposed patch attached and installed into the tzdb development version, and something like this should appear in the next tzdb release.
I don't know whether Metlakatla mayor Karl S. Cook Sr. knows, but it'd be helpful next time to give us more notice about this sort of thing. For details please see:
https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html#changes https://codeofmatt.com/2016/04/23/on-the-timing-of-time-zone-changes/ <0001-Metlakatla-switched-to-PST-last-weekend.patch>
Given that it’s in the past, do we really want to wait till people start complaining? Thanks, Debbie
On Nov 12, 2018, at 11:58 AM, Paul Eggert <eggert@CS.UCLA.EDU> wrote:
Deborah Goldsmith wrote:
Is there an ETA for releasing this?
Not yet. I've been assuming that there's no rush, since we didn't find out until after the fact and nobody on the ground seems to be complaining.
The other question is does the local government have the authority or is this another situation like Little Diomede, Alaska. There are many cultural and political issues around time zones in Alaska. I believe to be legally recognized the DoT has to sign off on it. https://alaskahistoricalsociety.org/discover-alaska/glimpses-of-the-past/kee... Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 12, 2018, at 5:00 PM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
Deborah Goldsmith wrote:
Given that it’s in the past, do we really want to wait till people start complaining?
That's what we've done in the past, as I recall, for low-population locations. It's the usual cost-benefit tradeoff.
I don't think it really matters whether it's legally recognized. If it's how people keep time in that part of the world then tzdata would not be accurately reporting the timekeeping practices there if it doesn't reflect this change. I guess the main question is whether the people there are actually following this declaration. On November 13, 2018 1:13:15 PM UTC, D Nathan Cookson <dorzak@gmail.com> wrote:
The other question is does the local government have the authority or is this another situation like Little Diomede, Alaska.
There are many cultural and political issues around time zones in Alaska. I believe to be legally recognized the DoT has to sign off on it.
https://alaskahistoricalsociety.org/discover-alaska/glimpses-of-the-past/kee...
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 12, 2018, at 5:00 PM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
Deborah Goldsmith wrote:
Given that it’s in the past, do we really want to wait till people start complaining?
That's what we've done in the past, as I recall, for low-population locations. It's the usual cost-benefit tradeoff.
That's a great article. But there appears to be a mistake. It says about Little Diomede, "the sun did not reach its zenith until 3:20 p.m. during the winter and 4:20 p.m. during the summer." I believe this should be 2:20 pm and 3:20 pm as Little Diomede, at around 170 is the equivalent of about 2.3 time zones west of the 135 deg meridian. Aaron On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:13 AM D Nathan Cookson <dorzak@gmail.com> wrote:
The other question is does the local government have the authority or is this another situation like Little Diomede, Alaska.
There are many cultural and political issues around time zones in Alaska. I believe to be legally recognized the DoT has to sign off on it.
https://alaskahistoricalsociety.org/discover-alaska/glimpses-of-the-past/kee...
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 12, 2018, at 5:00 PM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
Deborah Goldsmith wrote:
Given that it’s in the past, do we really want to wait till people start complaining?
That's what we've done in the past, as I recall, for low-population locations. It's the usual cost-benefit tradeoff.
Resurrecting this thread because Metlakatla has voted to reverse their prior decision. The community will be changing back on the 20th of this month and are hopeful the tz db can be updated for them. -Ryan Article: https://www.krbd.org/2018/12/12/metlakatla-to-follow-alaska-standard-time-al... [image: image.png] _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ AKTechOps <http://serrc.org/techops> | techops@serrc.org | *(907) 523-7290* *| Brian 523-7248 | Michaela 523-7258 | Nate 523-7275 | Nick 523-7291 | Ryan 523-7272 | SERRC 586-6806 |* On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 8:46 PM Aaron Brown <asb110273@gmail.com> wrote:
That's a great article. But there appears to be a mistake. It says about Little Diomede, "the sun did not reach its zenith until 3:20 p.m. during the winter and 4:20 p.m. during the summer." I believe this should be 2:20 pm and 3:20 pm as Little Diomede, at around 170 is the equivalent of about 2.3 time zones west of the 135 deg meridian.
Aaron
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 5:13 AM D Nathan Cookson <dorzak@gmail.com> wrote:
The other question is does the local government have the authority or is this another situation like Little Diomede, Alaska.
There are many cultural and political issues around time zones in Alaska. I believe to be legally recognized the DoT has to sign off on it.
https://alaskahistoricalsociety.org/discover-alaska/glimpses-of-the-past/kee...
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 12, 2018, at 5:00 PM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
Deborah Goldsmith wrote:
Given that it’s in the past, do we really want to wait till people start complaining?
That's what we've done in the past, as I recall, for low-population locations. It's the usual cost-benefit tradeoff.
TechOps via tz wrote:
Metlakatla has voted to reverse their prior decision. The community will be changing back on the 20th of this month and are hopeful the tz db can be updated for them. -Ryan
Article: https://www.krbd.org/2018/12/12/metlakatla-to-follow-alaska-standard-time-al... Thanks, but I don't see anything in that article (which is currently inaccessible to me but is archived at <https://web.archive.org/web/20181214091305/http://www.krbd.org/2018/12/12/me...>) saying that they'll change back on January 20. Instead, the article quotes the mayor as saying "I think what we’re going to do is we’re going to maintain our time until they ‘spring forward,’ and then we’ll align with the state at that time". That's what I installed into tzdb here:
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/18755931c8bac2ac2539211e83b82ada0ee4ba5e and that's what been in tzdb since 2018h. If the Metlakatla folks have changed their minds yet again, and are now planning for a transition on January 20, please let us know the time of the change, and we need to have a source for all this.
It's more fully announced on the community's Facebook page, which was included in the embedded image of Ryan's message. https://www.facebook.com/141055983004923/photos/607150969728753/ The "fall back" to rejoin Alaska Time will be at 2019-01-20 02:00, which means they'll be springing forward again (this time, with the rest of Alaska) seven weeks later. Proposed patch attached. -- Tim Parenti On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 13:24, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
TechOps via tz wrote:
Metlakatla has voted to reverse their prior decision. The community will be changing back on the 20th of this month and are hopeful the tz db can be updated for them. -Ryan
Article:
https://www.krbd.org/2018/12/12/metlakatla-to-follow-alaska-standard-time-al... Thanks, but I don't see anything in that article (which is currently inaccessible to me but is archived at < https://web.archive.org/web/20181214091305/http://www.krbd.org/2018/12/12/me...>)
saying that they'll change back on January 20. Instead, the article quotes the mayor as saying "I think what we’re going to do is we’re going to maintain our time until they ‘spring forward,’ and then we’ll align with the state at that time". That's what I installed into tzdb here:
https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/18755931c8bac2ac2539211e83b82ada0ee4ba5e
and that's what been in tzdb since 2018h.
If the Metlakatla folks have changed their minds yet again, and are now planning for a transition on January 20, please let us know the time of the change, and we need to have a source for all this.
Thank you so much Tim and Paul. -r _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ AKTechOps <http://serrc.org/techops> | techops@serrc.org | *(907) 523-7290* *| Brian 523-7248 | Michaela 523-7258 | Nate 523-7275 | Nick 523-7291 | Ryan 523-7272 | SERRC 586-6806 |* On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 1:14 PM Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
On 1/11/19 11:37 AM, Tim Parenti wrote:
It's more fully announced on the community's Facebook page, which was included in the embedded image of Ryan's message.
Thanks, I missed that as my email client did not display the image. I installed the patch you sent.
participants (7)
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Aaron Brown -
D Nathan Cookson -
Deborah Goldsmith -
Paul Eggert -
Paul G -
TechOps -
Tim Parenti