Hi, tz gurus. I am trying to figure out what time it is in the following russian cities: Balakovo, Engels, Saratov, Kamyshin, Volgograd, Volzhsky and Astrakhan. In "Sources for Time Zone and Daylight Saving Time Data" page http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm there are several maps mentioned which I examined. The CIA map (low802700.pdf) has these cities as being GMT+5. It even has the area sorounding Samara so small that I wonder if Ulyanovsk and Syzran are on GMT+4 or they are really on GMT+5. Manifolds net GPL-licenced map, seems to indicate one single time zone which both includes Samara and the above cities, suggesting that they should all be on GMT+4. I checked also the "World Timezones Map with current times" which is said to cover Russia particularly well (http://worldtimezone.com) and was made by a russian. This map has the most of these cities on GMT+3 which is what I have been sticking to until now. Recently Gwillim Law mentioned the page http://www.hammondmap.com/timezone/maintz.html which has a map where all these cities seem to be on GMT+4. Is there anybody on the tz mailing list that has more authoritative information? The question is if these cities are on GMT+3 (as I now have it), on GMT+4 or on GMT+5. The additional question is what time Ulyanovsk and Syzran are on. Of course, if you have my program World Time Explorer installed, you can check out on it's map the area I am talking about. Regards, Jesper Nørgaard Welen Email: jnorgard@Prodigy.Net.mx Programador/Analista CIMMYT - Centro Internacional de Mejoramiento de Maíz y Trigo Dirección: CIMMYT Int. c/o Jesper Nørgaard Km. 45, Carretera México-Veracruz El Batán Texcoco, Edo. de México CP 56130 MEXICO Tel.: +52 (5) 58-04-20-04 ext. 1374 Fax: +52 (5) 58-04-75-58 Tel. Casa: 53-10-05-95 ó 53-10-97-78 CIMMYT home page: http://cimmyt.cgiar.org Check out my free program World Time Explorer: http://www20.Brinkster.com/timezone50/index.htm http://members.theglobe.com/timezone50/index.htm
I did some research among local Russian sites, like the Samaran government, local newspapers and telephone companies such as MTS. I found no significant additional information to what's on the PCL, USNO and other timezone maps. I looked the places Jesper mentioned up in the big Times atlas. If you know for sure in what oblast' they are in, a better guess can be made as to the time zone they are in. Balakovo, Engel's, Saratov are in the Saratovskaya oblast'. Kamyshin, Volgograd, Volzhskiy are in the Volgogradskaya oblast'. Astrakhan' is in the Astrakhanskaya oblast'. Ul'yanovsk is in the Ul'yanovskaya oblast'. Syzran' is in the Samarskaya oblast'. (The ' is a real letter, the soft sign.) (It is possible that an Astrakhanskaya oblast' cannot be found; look for Kalmykiya-Khal'm Tangch, 'cos it's at the moment a republic.) Putting oblast' information and timezone map information together: The Volgogradskaya oblast' seems to be in the Moscow zone UTC+3. The other oblasti mentioned here seem to be all in the UTC+4 zone. Regards, Oscar van Vlijmen 2001-06-10
I've been creating a set of Web pages (see <http://www.mindspring.com/~gwil/tz.html>) with time zone data, mostly from the tz database, but doing considerable additional research. In the case of Russia, looking at time zone maps, I concluded that each oblast' lies entirely within one time zone, except Sakha and possibly Chukot. (Of course, that might have been an unsupported premise of the mapmakers.) I tabulated the time zone for each oblast' according to various sources. Here are the results I got for the five oblasti of current concern. Numbers are hour offsets from UTC. (If you use a monospacing font the columns should align.) Division |T|Ab|wtz|ent|MI|NO|WF|PCL|WF|RM|IAT|Qd|GU|tz Astrakhan'|o|AS|3 |4 |4 |3 |5 |4 |4 |4 |3 | |4 | Samara |o|SA|4 |4 |4 |4 |4 |4 |4 |4 |4 | |4 |4 Saratov |o|SR|3 |4 |3 |3 |5 |4 |4 |4 | | |4 | Ul'yanovsk|o|UL|4 |4 |4 |4 |5 |4 |4 |4 | | |4 | Volgograd |o|VG|3 |4 |3 |3 |5 |4 |4 |4 | |4 |4 | wtz: http://www.worldtimezone.com/time-russia2.htm (2001) ent: Rives McDow enteles map (2000-02) MI: http://www.mark-itt.ru/Collection/Russia/tz_rus.html (2001) NO: U.S. Naval Observatory map http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/world_tzones.html (2001-04) WF: http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/reference/Low%20res%20PDF/low8 02700.pdf (2000-04) PCL: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwealth/ussr_time_82.jpg (1982-03) WF: Map in printed CIA World Factbook (1992) RM: Map in the Rand McNally International Atlas (1990) IAT: IATA SSIM data (1991-02 to 2000-02, inclusive) Qd: Quid (a French encyclopedic almanac) (1993) GU: Hildebrands map of GUS (CIS) (1994) tz: tz database 2001b (2001) It looks as if some oblasti moved from one time zone to another a couple of years after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and that might account for some of the discrepancies in the table above. Gwillim Law
Republic of Sakha, formerly Yakutiya, has 33 administrative regions and seems to span 3 time zones. * Basic facts: http://gamesasia.ykt.ru/sakha-yakutia/basfactsR.htm (there is also an English page). * Big maps of Sakha with the 33 regions: http://gamesasia.ykt.ru/sakha-yakutia/Images/bigmap.gif http://www.sakha.ru/sakha/republic/big.gif * Mentioning of 3 time zones: http://odur.let.rug.nl/~bergmann/russia/regions/rus14sa.htm (University of Groningen, Netherlands) http://ngo.sitc.ru/nll/sakha/sakhainfo2.html ("The republic has three time zones.") And several other pages, inclusing most maps Gwillim Law refers to, e.g. the map of worldtimezone.com and "USSR: Time Zones" Oct. 1982. But which ulusy (regions) of Sakha are in which time zone? Looking at maps it could be deduced that western cities like Mirny, Tiksi, Yakutsk are in Moscow+6, Verkhoyansk is in Moscow+7, and at any rate the eastern cities with airports (Cherskij, Zyryanka) are in Moscow+8. I would speculate that the regions with Chokurdakh, Belaya Gora, Khonuu, Ust'-Nera, Cherskij, Srednekolymsk, Zyryanka are all in Moscow+8. Which regions are in Moscow+7 cannot be deduced easily. Could http://www.worldtimeserver.com give an answer? Is this a reliable source of time information? They think they are: "World Time Server provides the most accurate current local times of any world clock on the Internet. It makes real time adjustments for Daylight Saving Time. No matter what time zone a country or city is located in, this site is your best resource for determining any time, anywhere." Oscar van Vlijmen 2001-06-14
I have had the following information regarding Sakha (which according to my Russian source is the only area split across more than 1 timezone: The following rayons fall in to each time zone. [] indicates the tz canonical name 8-th zone(MSK+6) [Europe/Yakutsk] Aldansky Amginsky Anabarsky Bulunsky Verkhnevilyuisky Verkhnekolymsky Vilyuisky Gorny Zhigansky Kobyaisky Lensky Megino-Kangalassky Mirninsky Namsky Nyurbinsky Olyokminsky Olenyoksky Srednekolymsky Suntarsky Tattinsky Khangalassky Ust-Aldansky Churapchinsky Eveno-Bytantaisky 9-th zone(MSK+7): [Europe/Vladivostock] Ust-Yansky Tomponsky Verkhoyansky Ust-Maisky 10-th zone(MSK+8): [Europe/Magadan] Abyisky Momsky Oimyakonsky Allaikhovsky Nizhnekolymsky Regards, Russian Information Service RISER [Also the map at http://wwg.lgg.ru/russia/timezone.html ] My database is now updated Best wishes Alan Pritchard The GLOBAL GAZETTEER: the world on file http://www.allm-geodata.com Tel: +44 (0) 1202 417 477
Alan Pritchard wrote:
I have had the following information regarding Sakha This is very useful! Thanks.
[Also the map at http://wwg.lgg.ru/russia/timezone.html ] I converted the image map code on this web page to a list (below) and transliterated the Russian names for those who want to do further research.
Please note that there are some conflicts between this timezone map and earlier information about the regions we investigated between 2001-06-10 and 2001-06-19 (cf. tz email archive). Seems that there are a bit too many regions in the Moscow timezone, according to Anton Star/lgg.ru. The following list is sorted by Moscow-offset and then by the names of the regions without the respublika, oblast' etc, in the order of the Russian alphabet. Transliteration scheme: Chemical Abstracts, the most readable transliteration - with the exception: ' is a soft sign, which should have been transliterated to the less email compatible . Moskva-1 ------------ Kaliningradskaya oblast' Moskva = 0 ---------------- Moskva Moskovskaya oblast' Respublika Adygeya Arkhangel'skaya oblast' Astrakhanskaya oblast' Belgorodskaya oblast' Bryanskaya oblast' Vladimirskaya oblast' Volgogradskaya oblast' Vologodskaya oblast' Voronezhskaya oblast' Respublika Dagestan Ivanovskaya oblast' Respublika Ingushetiya Kabarbino-Balkarskaya Respublika Respublika Kalmykiya Kalyzhskaya oblast' Respublika Karachaevo-Cherkessiya Respublika Kareliya Kirovskaya oblast' Respublika Komi Kostromskaya oblast' Krasnodarskij kraj Kurskaya oblast' Leningradskaya oblast' Lipetskaya oblast' Respublika Marij El Respublika Mordoviya Murmanskaya oblast' Nenetskij avtonomnyj okrug Nizhegorodskaya oblast' Novgorodskaya oblast' Orlovskaya oblast' Penzenskaya oblast' Pskovskaya oblast' Rostovskaya oblast' Ryazanskaya oblast' Sankt-Peterburg Saratovskaya oblast' Respublika Severnaya Osetiya Smolenskaya oblast' Stavropol'skij kraj Tambovskaya oblast' Respublika Tatarstan Tverskaya oblast' Tyl'skaya oblast' Ul'yanovskaya oblast' Chechenskaya Respublika Chuvashskaya oblast' Yaroslavskaya oblast' Moskva+1 ------------ Samarskaya oblast' Udmyrtskaya respublika Moskva+2 ------------- Respublika Bashkortostan Komi-Permyatskij avtonomnyj okrug Kurganskaya oblast' Orenburgskaya oblast' Permskaya oblast' Sverdlovskaya oblast' Tyumenskaya oblast' Khanty-Manskijskij avtonomnyj okrug Chelyabinskaya oblast' Yamalo-Nenetskij avtonomnyj okrug Moskva+3 ------------- Respublika Altaj Altajskij kraj Omskaya oblast' Novosibirskaya oblast' Moskva+4 -------------- Kemerovskaya oblast' Krasnoyarskij kraj Tajmyrskij (Dolgano-Nenetskij) avtonomnyj okrug Tomskaya oblast' Respublika Tuva Respublika Khakasiya Evenkijskij avtonomnyj okrug Moskva+5 ------------- Respublika Buryatiya Irkutskaya oblast' Ust'-Ordynskij Buryatskij avtonomnyj okrug Moskva+6 ------------- Aginskij Buryatskij avtonomnyj okrug Amurskaya oblast' Respublika Sakha (Yakutiya) Chitinskaya oblast' Moskva+7 ------------- Evrejskaya avtonomnaya oblast' Khabarovskij kraj Primorskij kraj Respublika Sakha (Yakutiya) Sakhalinskaya oblast' Moskva+8 ------------- Magadanskaya oblast' Respublika Sakha (Yakutiya) Moskva+9 ------------- Kamchatskaya oblast' Koryakskij avtonomnyj okrug Chukotskij avtonomnyj okrug Regards, Oscar van Vlijmen 2001-08-25
Hmm, the map at <http://worldtimezone.com/time-russia2.htm> seems to be quite closely related to <http://wwg.lgg.ru/russia/timezone.html>. I wonder where the map is coming from originally? Also, the two maps disagree about Ul'yanovskaya oblast' <http://wwg.lgg.ru/russia/reg73.html>, Altajskij kraj <http://wwg.lgg.ru/russia/reg22.html>, and Respublika Altaj <http://wwg.lgg.ru/russia/reg04.html>. Worldtimezone.com says the first is at UTC+4 and the other two at UTC+7; LGG.ru says UTC+3 and UTC+6 respectively. Do you know which of these two maps is more up-to-date and correct? I'd guess the Russian-language one, but I could well be wrong.
From Paul Eggert:
Also, the two maps disagree about Ul'yanovskaya oblast' <http://wwg.lgg.ru/russia/reg73.html>, Altajskij kraj <http://wwg.lgg.ru/russia/reg22.html>, and Respublika Altaj <http://wwg.lgg.ru/russia/reg04.html>. Worldtimezone.com says the first is at UTC+4 and the other two at UTC+7; LGG.ru says UTC+3 and UTC+6 respectively.
In my email dated 2001-06-13 a couple of Russian language timezone lists are mentioned. These lists say: * Ul'yanovsk, in the Ul'yanovskaya oblast' - timezone Moswow + 1 (UTC+4 in winter) * Barnaul, in the Altajskij kraj - timezone Moscow +4 (UTC+7 in winter) * Gorno-Altaijsk, in the Respublika Altaj - timezone Moscow +4 (UTC+7 in winter) Worldtimezone.com gives the same information. See for one of those lists e.g. http://www.mark-itt.ru/Collection/Russia/tz_rus.html By the way, these lists say Azerbajdzhan, Kazakhstan, Tadzhikistan, Turkmeniya and Uzbekistan don't do DST. But, worldtimeserver.com says Azerbajdzhan and Kazakhstan (3 zones) do obey DST, while Tadzhikistan, Turkmeniya and Uzbekistan do not, which is the same information the tz-database gives. There is another discrepancy between lgg.ru and worldtimezone.com. According to lgg.ru the Arkhangel'skaya oblast' consists of the mainland part, the island Novaya Zemlya and the islet Kolguyev, all within the same timezone as Moscow. Worldtimezone however puts Kolguyev in the Moscow zone and Novaya Zemlya in the Moscow+1 zone. Hmmm, it's very difficult to get some definitive answers! Regards, Oscar van Vlijmen 2001-08-26
participants (5)
-
alan＠allm-geodata.com -
Gwillim Law -
Jesper Nørgaard -
Oscar van Vlijmen -
Paul Eggert