From: Arthur David Olson [olsona@elsie.nci.nih.gov] Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:43 AM To: tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: first pass at Uyghur time Below find a first pass at changes to "zone.tabb" and "asia" to handle Uyghur variants of time in China. The basic approach is to have zones with Han-based names for the rules used by Han, and zones with Uyghur-based names for the rules used by Uyghur. --ado ------- zone.tab ------- *** /tmp/geta21843 Sat Nov 21 10:34:46 2009 --- /tmp/getb21843 Sat Nov 21 10:34:46 2009 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.29 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.30 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # *************** *** 148,155 **** CN +3114+12128 Asia/Shanghai east China - Beijing, Guangdong, Shanghai, etc. CN +4545+12641 Asia/Harbin Heilongjiang (except Mohe), Jilin CN +2934+10635 Asia/Chongqing central China - Sichuan, Yunnan, Guangxi, Shaanxi, Guizhou, etc. ! CN +4348+08735 Asia/Urumqi most of Tibet & Xinjiang ! CN +3929+07559 Asia/Kashgar west Tibet & Xinjiang CO +0436-07405 America/Bogota CR +0956-08405 America/Costa_Rica CU +2308-08222 America/Havana --- 148,157 ---- CN +3114+12128 Asia/Shanghai east China - Beijing, Guangdong, Shanghai, etc. CN +4545+12641 Asia/Harbin Heilongjiang (except Mohe), Jilin CN +2934+10635 Asia/Chongqing central China - Sichuan, Yunnan, Guangxi, Shaanxi, Guizhou, etc. ! CN +4348+08735 Asia/Urumqi most of Tibet & Xinjiang (offset 6 hours from UTC as base) ! CN +4348+08735 Asia/Wulumuqi most of Tibet & Xinjiang (using Beijing time) ! CN +3929+07559 Asia/Kashgar west Tibet & Xinjiang (offset 6 hours from UTC as base) ! CN +3929+07559 Asia/Kashi west Tibet & Xinjiang (using Beijing time) CO +0436-07405 America/Bogota CR +0956-08405 America/Costa_Rica CU +2308-08222 America/Havana ------- asia ------- *** /tmp/geta21865 Sat Nov 21 10:35:09 2009 --- /tmp/getb21865 Sat Nov 21 10:35:09 2009 *************** *** 1,4 **** ! # @(#)asia 8.44 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. --- 1,4 ---- ! # @(#)asia 8.45 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. *************** *** 355,374 **** # Wusu, Qiemo, Xinyan, Wulanwusu, Jinghe, Yumin, Tacheng, Tuoli, Emin, # Shihezi, Changji, Yanqi, Heshuo, Tuokexun, Tulufan, Shanshan, Hami, # Fukang, Kuitun, Kumukuli, Miquan, Qitai, and Turfan. ! Zone Asia/Urumqi 5:50:20 - LMT 1928 # or Urumchi ! 6:00 - URUT 1980 May # Urumqi Time ! 8:00 PRC C%sT # Kunlun Time # West Tibet, including Pulan, Aheqi, Shufu, Shule; # West Xinjiang, including Aksu, Atushi, Yining, Hetian, Cele, Luopu, Nileke, # Zhaosu, Tekesi, Gongliu, Chabuchaer, Huocheng, Bole, Pishan, Suiding, # and Yarkand. ! Zone Asia/Kashgar 5:03:56 - LMT 1928 # or Kashi or Kaxgar ! 5:30 - KAST 1940 # Kashgar Time 5:00 - KAST 1980 May 8:00 PRC C%sT # From Lee Yiu Chung (2009-10-24): # I found there are some mistakes for the historial DST rule for Hong # Kong. Accoring to the DST record from Hong Kong Observatory (actually, --- 355,456 ---- # Wusu, Qiemo, Xinyan, Wulanwusu, Jinghe, Yumin, Tacheng, Tuoli, Emin, # Shihezi, Changji, Yanqi, Heshuo, Tuokexun, Tulufan, Shanshan, Hami, # Fukang, Kuitun, Kumukuli, Miquan, Qitai, and Turfan. ! # Kunlun Time # West Tibet, including Pulan, Aheqi, Shufu, Shule; # West Xinjiang, including Aksu, Atushi, Yining, Hetian, Cele, Luopu, Nileke, # Zhaosu, Tekesi, Gongliu, Chabuchaer, Huocheng, Bole, Pishan, Suiding, # and Yarkand. ! ! # From Luther Ma (2009-10-17): ! # Almost all (>99.9%) ethnic Chinese (properly ethnic Han) living in ! # Xinjiang use Chinese Standard Time. Some are aware of Xinjiang time, ! # but have no need of it. All planes, trains, and schools function on ! # what is called "Beijing time." When Han make an appointment in Chinese ! # they implicitly use Beijing time. ! # ! # On the other hand, ethnic Uyghurs, who make up about half the ! # population of Xinjiang, typically use "Xinjiang time" which is two ! # hours behind Beijing time, or UTC +0600. The government of the Xinjiang ! # Uyghur Autonomous Region, (XAUR, or just Xinjiang for short) as well as ! # local governments such as the Urumqi city government use both times in ! # publications, referring to what is popularly called Xinjiang time as ! # "Urumqi time." When Uyghurs make an appointment in the Uyghur language ! # they almost invariably use Xinjiang time. ! # ! # (Their ethnic Han compatriots would typically have no clue of its ! # widespread use, however, because so extremely few of them are fluent in ! # Uyghur, comparable to the number of Anglo-Americans fluent in Navajo.) ! # ! # (...As with the rest of China there was a brief interval ending in 1990 ! # or 1991 when summer time was in use. The confusion was severe, with ! # the province not having dual times but four times in use at the same ! # time. Some areas remained on standard Xinjiang time or Beijing time and ! # others moving their clocks ahead.) ! # ! # ...an example of an official website using of Urumqi time. ! # ! # The first few lines of the Google translation of ! # <a href="http://www.fjysgl.gov.cn/show.aspx?id=2379&cid=39"> ! # http://www.fjysgl.gov.cn/show.aspx?id=2379&cid=39 ! # </a> ! # (retrieved 2009-10-13) ! # > Urumqi fire seven people are missing the alleged losses of at least ! # > 500 million yuan ! # > ! # > (Reporter Dong Liu) the day before 20:20 or so (Urumqi Time 18:20), ! # > Urumqi City Department of International Plaza Luther Qiantang River ! # > burst fire. As of yesterday, 18:30, Urumqi City Fire officers and men ! # > have worked continuously for 22 hours... ! ! # From Luther Ma (2009-11-19): ! # With the risk of being redundant to previous answers these are the most common ! # English "transliterations" (w/o using non-English symbols): ! # ! # 1. Wulumuqi... ! # 2. Kashi... ! # 3. Urumqi... ! # 4. Kashgar... ! # ... ! # 5. It seems that Uyghurs in Urumqi has been using Xinjiang since at least the ! # 1960's. I know of one Han, now over 50, who grew up in the surrounding ! # countryside and used Xinjiang time as a child. ! # ! # 6. Likewise for Kashgar and the rest of south Xinjiang I don't know of any ! # start date for Xinjiang time. ! # ! # Without having access to local historical records, nor the ability to legally ! # publish them, I would go with October 1, 1949, when Xinjiang became the Uyghur ! # Autonomous Region under the PRC. (Before that Uyghurs, of course, would also ! # not be using Beijing time, but some local time.) ! ! # From Arthur David Olson (2009-11-21) ! # Use English transliterations of Han names of cities for names of zones using Han approaches; ! # use English transliterations of Uyghur names of cities for names of zones using Uyghur approaches. ! # Since (reportedly) at least some Uyghur have observed Beijing DST rules, ! # use PRC rules for Uyghur zones. ! ! # First the Han... ! ! Zone Asia/Wulumuqi 5:50:20 - LMT 1928 ! 6:00 - WULT 1980 May # Wulumuqi Time ! 8:00 PRC C%sT ! ! Zone Asia/Kashi 5:03:56 - LMT 1928 ! 5:30 - KAST 1940 # Kashi time 5:00 - KAST 1980 May 8:00 PRC C%sT + # ...and then the Uyghur... + Zone Asia/Urumqi 5:50:20 - LMT 1928 # or Urumchi + 6:00 PRC XIN%sT # Xinjiang Time + + Zone Asia/Kashgar 5:03:56 - LMT 1928 + 5:30 - KAST 1940 # Kashgar time + 5:00 - KAST 1949 Oct 1 + 6:00 PRC XIN%sT # Xinjiang Time + # From Lee Yiu Chung (2009-10-24): # I found there are some mistakes for the historial DST rule for Hong # Kong. Accoring to the DST record from Hong Kong Observatory (actually,

The tz homepage has a pretty good definition of what a "zone" is within the context of the tz database: Each location in the database represents a national region where all clocks

keeping local time have agreed since 1970. Locations are identified by continent or ocean and then by the name of the location, which is typically the largest city within the region.

Although it is typically the case that tz database timezones are non-overlapping, I don't think there is anything in the definition that requires that they be. So, two distinct populations in the same geographic area that observe different clock conventions ought to have two distinct time zones. As we see in the case of Xinjiang, it makes the naming convention a little tricky. -Scott On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Luther Ma <ma.lude.xj@gmail.com> wrote:

One thing I wonder about is exactly what "zone" refers to. The reason I ask is that Han living in Xinjiang would not say that they are in the Urumqi (or Wulumuqi) zone as far as time is concerned. Does it refer instead an area and population center first and then to a time zone second?

-mld

On Dec 7, 2009, at 8:53 PM, Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] wrote:

From: Arthur David Olson [olsona@elsie.nci.nih.gov]

...

Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:43 AM To: tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: first pass at Uyghur time

Below find a first pass at changes to "zone.tabb" and "asia" to handle Uyghur variants of time in China. The basic approach is to have zones with Han-based names for the rules used by Han, and zones with Uyghur-based names for the rules used by Uyghur.

--ado

------- zone.tab ------- *** /tmp/geta21843 Sat Nov 21 10:34:46 2009 --- /tmp/getb21843 Sat Nov 21 10:34:46 2009 *************** *** 1,5 **** # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.29 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # --- 1,5 ---- # <pre> ! # @(#)zone.tab 8.30 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson. # *************** *** 148,155 **** CN +3114+12128 Asia/Shanghai east China - Beijing, Guangdong, Shanghai, etc. CN +4545+12641 Asia/Harbin Heilongjiang (except Mohe), Jilin CN +2934+10635 Asia/Chongqing central China - Sichuan, Yunnan, Guangxi, Shaanxi, Guizhou, etc. ! CN +4348+08735 Asia/Urumqi most of Tibet & Xinjiang ! CN +3929+07559 Asia/Kashgar west Tibet & Xinjiang CO +0436-07405 America/Bogota CR +0956-08405 America/Costa_Rica CU +2308-08222 America/Havana --- 148,157 ---- CN +3114+12128 Asia/Shanghai east China - Beijing, Guangdong, Shanghai, etc. CN +4545+12641 Asia/Harbin Heilongjiang (except Mohe), Jilin CN +2934+10635 Asia/Chongqing central China - Sichuan, Yunnan, Guangxi, Shaanxi, Guizhou, etc. ! CN +4348+08735 Asia/Urumqi most of Tibet & Xinjiang (offset 6 hours from UTC as base) ! CN +4348+08735 Asia/Wulumuqi most of Tibet & Xinjiang (using Beijing time) ! CN +3929+07559 Asia/Kashgar west Tibet & Xinjiang (offset 6 hours from UTC as base) ! CN +3929+07559 Asia/Kashi west Tibet & Xinjiang (using Beijing time) CO +0436-07405 America/Bogota CR +0956-08405 America/Costa_Rica CU +2308-08222 America/Havana

------- asia ------- *** /tmp/geta21865 Sat Nov 21 10:35:09 2009 --- /tmp/getb21865 Sat Nov 21 10:35:09 2009 *************** *** 1,4 **** ! # @(#)asia 8.44 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson.

--- 1,4 ---- ! # @(#)asia 8.45 # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson.

*************** *** 355,374 **** # Wusu, Qiemo, Xinyan, Wulanwusu, Jinghe, Yumin, Tacheng, Tuoli, Emin, # Shihezi, Changji, Yanqi, Heshuo, Tuokexun, Tulufan, Shanshan, Hami, # Fukang, Kuitun, Kumukuli, Miquan, Qitai, and Turfan. ! Zone Asia/Urumqi 5:50:20 - LMT 1928 # or Urumchi ! 6:00 - URUT 1980 May # Urumqi Time ! 8:00 PRC C%sT # Kunlun Time # West Tibet, including Pulan, Aheqi, Shufu, Shule; # West Xinjiang, including Aksu, Atushi, Yining, Hetian, Cele, Luopu, Nileke, # Zhaosu, Tekesi, Gongliu, Chabuchaer, Huocheng, Bole, Pishan, Suiding, # and Yarkand. ! Zone Asia/Kashgar 5:03:56 - LMT 1928 # or Kashi or Kaxgar ! 5:30 - KAST 1940 # Kashgar Time 5:00 - KAST 1980 May 8:00 PRC C%sT

# From Lee Yiu Chung (2009-10-24): # I found there are some mistakes for the historial DST rule for Hong # Kong. Accoring to the DST record from Hong Kong Observatory (actually, --- 355,456 ---- # Wusu, Qiemo, Xinyan, Wulanwusu, Jinghe, Yumin, Tacheng, Tuoli, Emin, # Shihezi, Changji, Yanqi, Heshuo, Tuokexun, Tulufan, Shanshan, Hami, # Fukang, Kuitun, Kumukuli, Miquan, Qitai, and Turfan. ! # Kunlun Time # West Tibet, including Pulan, Aheqi, Shufu, Shule; # West Xinjiang, including Aksu, Atushi, Yining, Hetian, Cele, Luopu, Nileke, # Zhaosu, Tekesi, Gongliu, Chabuchaer, Huocheng, Bole, Pishan, Suiding, # and Yarkand. ! ! # From Luther Ma (2009-10-17): ! # Almost all (>99.9%) ethnic Chinese (properly ethnic Han) living in ! # Xinjiang use Chinese Standard Time. Some are aware of Xinjiang time, ! # but have no need of it. All planes, trains, and schools function on ! # what is called "Beijing time." When Han make an appointment in Chinese ! # they implicitly use Beijing time. ! # ! # On the other hand, ethnic Uyghurs, who make up about half the ! # population of Xinjiang, typically use "Xinjiang time" which is two ! # hours behind Beijing time, or UTC +0600. The government of the Xinjiang ! # Uyghur Autonomous Region, (XAUR, or just Xinjiang for short) as well as ! # local governments such as the Urumqi city government use both times in ! # publications, referring to what is popularly called Xinjiang time as ! # "Urumqi time." When Uyghurs make an appointment in the Uyghur language ! # they almost invariably use Xinjiang time. ! # ! # (Their ethnic Han compatriots would typically have no clue of its ! # widespread use, however, because so extremely few of them are fluent in ! # Uyghur, comparable to the number of Anglo-Americans fluent in Navajo.) ! # ! # (...As with the rest of China there was a brief interval ending in 1990 ! # or 1991 when summer time was in use. The confusion was severe, with ! # the province not having dual times but four times in use at the same ! # time. Some areas remained on standard Xinjiang time or Beijing time and ! # others moving their clocks ahead.) ! # ! # ...an example of an official website using of Urumqi time. ! # ! # The first few lines of the Google translation of ! # <a href="http://www.fjysgl.gov.cn/show.aspx?id=2379&cid=39"> ! # http://www.fjysgl.gov.cn/show.aspx?id=2379&cid=39 ! # </a> ! # (retrieved 2009-10-13) ! # > Urumqi fire seven people are missing the alleged losses of at least ! # > 500 million yuan ! # > ! # > (Reporter Dong Liu) the day before 20:20 or so (Urumqi Time 18:20), ! # > Urumqi City Department of International Plaza Luther Qiantang River ! # > burst fire. As of yesterday, 18:30, Urumqi City Fire officers and men ! # > have worked continuously for 22 hours... ! ! # From Luther Ma (2009-11-19): ! # With the risk of being redundant to previous answers these are the most common ! # English "transliterations" (w/o using non-English symbols): ! # ! # 1. Wulumuqi... ! # 2. Kashi... ! # 3. Urumqi... ! # 4. Kashgar... ! # ... ! # 5. It seems that Uyghurs in Urumqi has been using Xinjiang since at least the ! # 1960's. I know of one Han, now over 50, who grew up in the surrounding ! # countryside and used Xinjiang time as a child. ! # ! # 6. Likewise for Kashgar and the rest of south Xinjiang I don't know of any ! # start date for Xinjiang time. ! # ! # Without having access to local historical records, nor the ability to legally ! # publish them, I would go with October 1, 1949, when Xinjiang became the Uyghur ! # Autonomous Region under the PRC. (Before that Uyghurs, of course, would also ! # not be using Beijing time, but some local time.) ! ! # From Arthur David Olson (2009-11-21) ! # Use English transliterations of Han names of cities for names of zones using Han approaches; ! # use English transliterations of Uyghur names of cities for names of zones using Uyghur approaches. ! # Since (reportedly) at least some Uyghur have observed Beijing DST rules, ! # use PRC rules for Uyghur zones. ! ! # First the Han... ! ! Zone Asia/Wulumuqi 5:50:20 - LMT 1928 ! 6:00 - WULT 1980 May # Wulumuqi Time ! 8:00 PRC C%sT ! ! Zone Asia/Kashi 5:03:56 - LMT 1928 ! 5:30 - KAST 1940 # Kashi time 5:00 - KAST 1980 May 8:00 PRC C%sT

+ # ...and then the Uyghur...

+ Zone Asia/Urumqi 5:50:20 - LMT 1928 # or Urumchi + 6:00 PRC XIN%sT # Xinjiang Time + + Zone Asia/Kashgar 5:03:56 - LMT 1928 + 5:30 - KAST 1940 # Kashgar time + 5:00 - KAST 1949 Oct 1 + 6:00 PRC XIN%sT # Xinjiang Time + # From Lee Yiu Chung (2009-10-24): # I found there are some mistakes for the historial DST rule for Hong # Kong. Accoring to the DST record from Hong Kong Observatory (actually,

-- Scott Atwood The hill isn't in the way, it is the way.

I'm not an expert in this area, but here are my observations from a distance FWIW. It seems like there's a problem with trying to find a "city in the region" for the national/official timezone - the region for that is the whole of china and the biggest city is Beijing. And according to the article (and other journalistic sources), people seem to orient to the "Xinjiang" (local) time and "Beijing" time. On 7 Dec 2009, at 17:46, Eric Muller <emuller@adobe.com> wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/19/world/defiant-chinese-muslims-keep-their-o...

We already have a beijing time (or at least a PRC time). We need a Xinjiang time. Why have a Wulumuqi time at all? There is no "separate wulumuqi timezone". Tim On 7 Dec 2009, at 17:55, Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU> wrote:

Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 22:45:33 +0600 From: Luther Ma <ma.lude.xj@gmail.com> Message-ID: <C447F652-CB6B-4518-B009-83898D10C41A@gmail.com>

| One thing I wonder about is exactly what "zone" refers to. The reason | I ask is that Han living in Xinjiang would not say that they are in | the Urumqi (or Wulumuqi) zone as far as time is concerned. Does it | refer instead an area and population center first and then to a time | zone second?

It is (except in a few rare cases that cause problems, mostly in South America I think) the Anglophile name of the biggest population centre (city or town) within the same country, that has a particular wallclock time (and history).

Timezones themselves tend not to actually have names in many places, it is just "the time" - but cities and towns generally always have names, and it is very rare for a single city or time to have two different timezones (the ones under discussion being one odd case.)

kre

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009, Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] wrote:

! CN +4348+08735 Asia/Urumqi most of Tibet & Xinjiang (offset 6 hours from UTC as base) ! CN +4348+08735 Asia/Wulumuqi most of Tibet & Xinjiang (using Beijing time) ! CN +3929+07559 Asia/Kashgar west Tibet & Xinjiang (offset 6 hours from UTC as base) ! CN +3929+07559 Asia/Kashi west Tibet & Xinjiang (using Beijing time)

Perhaps it would be easier for people to choose between the available options if the comments said "using Xinjiang time" and "using Beijing time". I think users are more likely to know whether or not they want Xinjiang time than to know whether or not they want an offset 6 hours from UTC. --apb (Alan Barrett)