Ministry of Digital Development and Communications, the Government of Mongolia
Dear Sir/Ma'am, As we sent an inquiry regarding the switching time to the regular summer time matter earlier, could you please provide us some recommendations on below. The Government of Mongolia is planning to switch to the regular summer time from 22-26 March, 2024. Currently, the discussions are made within the Government as well as at the Parliament. We expect that final decision will be made in the October. Therefore, is it possible to arrange the switching process in the next 5 months? Is there any extraordinary cases like us or not? Or shall we make our changes in the September 2024? Thank you for your kind consideration in advance and hope to hear from you soon. Sincerely, Ms. Ariuntuul --- Foreign Cooperation Division Ministry of Digital Development and Communications The Government of Mongolia Tel: +976 51 260636 www.mddc.gov.mn
On 2023-09-19 02:00, fr via tz wrote:
As we sent an inquiry regarding the switching time to the regular summer time matter earlier, could you please provide us some recommendations on below. The Government of Mongolia is planning to switch to the regular summer time from 22-26 March, 2024. Currently, the discussions are made within the Government as well as at the Parliament. We expect that final decision will be made in the October. Therefore, is it possible to arrange the switching process in the next 5 months? Is there any extraordinary cases like us or not? Or shall we make our changes in the September 2024? Thank you for your kind consideration in advance and hope to hear from you soon.
Dear Ms.Ariuntuul, Major systems and software organizations and projects have posted that it can take many months to produce properly tested official updates to time zone and summer time data, so more advance notice in official publications is better. Late changes have resulted in business, economic, and travel disruption costing many millions for many governments and businesses, as well as reputational harm from effects, and resultant future impacts. It would probably be fair to say that, as governments have to provide adequate advance notice, to international organizations such as IATA, of dates and times of changes to time zones and variations such as summer time, also informing this list at the same time should be adequate notice for changes, although for this list, the longer in advance the notice the better. This list also likes to be able to refer (users) to web links for government documents published on official sites (e.g. ...gov.mn) offering the (auto-translatable) digital texts of the relevant decrees, laws, orders, ordinances, regulations, etc. as modified and enacted into law. For example, the last major US change on 2007-03-11 was signed into law on 2005-08-08, passed by House and Senate in the previous month, the bill debated for months before that, and discussed for months before submission as a bill. The primary official maintainer responded and referred G.Delgermaa to the recommendations: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html#coordinating and background ICANN blog referenced in that page: <https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/how-time-zones-are-coordinated-13-03-...> The history of the data is available summarized online in commoents in the development repository under: https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/main/asia#L2787 # Mongolia any corrections to current or historical practices and details are gratefully received at any time, as requested of G.Delgermaa by another contributor last month: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-September/033044.html Assistance from a local software developer familiar with both languages may be able to help you better understand the requirements and reasons for them. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
On 2023-09-19 01:00, fr via tz wrote:
The Government of Mongolia is planning to switch to the regular summer time from 22-26 March, 2024. Currently, the discussions are made within the Government as well as at the Parliament. We expect that final decision will be made in the October. Therefore, is it possible to arrange the switching process in the next 5 months? Is there any extraordinary cases like us or not? Or shall we make our changes in the September 2024?
Thank you for letting us know. If the Mongolian government publishes its official decision in October and notifies us, we can generate a new TZDB release quickly. However, it will take some months for this release to trickle out to cell phones, computers, and other devices, because many intermediaries check TZDB data before redistributing it, and because users often wait for some time before installing updates. This is why we suggest a year's notice for changes. (Even a year's notice is not perfect, as some devices will never be updated, but one cannot wait forever.) With five months' notice many devices will be updated, but it is hard to predict how many. So it is a judgment call as to whether five months is enough for Mongolia. Although the TZDB project suggests twelve months' notice, this is not a strict requirement. Although it is not clear from your email, I guess that the government of Mongolia plans to switch its time zone permanently, so that clocks in Ulaanbaatar would move forward one hour on (say) March 29, 2025 at 02:00 local time, and that no further clock adjustments would occur afterwards. That is, Ulaanbaatar would simply change its time zone from 8 to 9 hours ahead of UTC on a designated date and time. If my guess is correct, it might be better for Mongolia to change its clocks in spring and not in autumn, as moving clocks forward in autumn works against the normal pattern of sunsets coming earlier in autumn. Also, it would make sense to review "Costs and benefits of time shifts", which summarizes scientific reviews of whether and when to change time zones. Please see: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html#costs Finally, I echo Nick's request in <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-September/033044.html> for any information your government has about past time changes and boundaries between time zones in Mongolia, so we can correct any mistakes in TZDB concerning your country. Thank you.
Dear Mr. Paul, Thank you for you prompt response. The Government of Mongolia is planning to switch to the summer time schedule which also switch back in the autumn. Therefore, once we publish the official decision in October, we will contact you as soon as possible for the process. Thank you again for your kind efforts. Sincerely, Ms. Ariuntuul --- Foreign Cooperation Division Ministry of Digital Development and Communications The Government of Mongolia Tel: +976 51 260636 www.mddc.gov.mn -----Original Message----- From: Paul <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> To: Ariuntuul <fr@mddc.gov.mn> Cc: Delgermaa.G <delgermaa.g@mddc.gov.mn>; Time <tz@iana.org> Date: Wednesday, 20 September 2023 5:12 AM +08 Subject: Re: [tz] Ministry of Digital Development and Communications, the Government of Mongolia CAUTION: This email originated from outside your organization. Exercise caution when opening attachments or on clicking links from unknown senders. On 2023-09-19 01:00, fr via tz wrote:
The Government of Mongolia is planning to switch to the regular summer time from 22-26 March, 2024. Currently, the discussions are made within the Government as well as at the Parliament. We expect that final decision will be made in the October. Therefore, is it possible to arrange the switching process in the next 5 months? Is there any extraordinary cases like us or not? Or shall we make our changes in the September 2024?
Thank you for letting us know. If the Mongolian government publishes its official decision in October and notifies us, we can generate a new TZDB release quickly. However, it will take some months for this release to trickle out to cell phones, computers, and other devices, because many intermediaries check TZDB data before redistributing it, and because users often wait for some time before installing updates. This is why we suggest a year's notice for changes. (Even a year's notice is not perfect, as some devices will never be updated, but one cannot wait forever.) With five months' notice many devices will be updated, but it is hard to predict how many. So it is a judgment call as to whether five months is enough for Mongolia. Although the TZDB project suggests twelve months' notice, this is not a strict requirement. Although it is not clear from your email, I guess that the government of Mongolia plans to switch its time zone permanently, so that clocks in Ulaanbaatar would move forward one hour on (say) March 29, 2025 at 02:00 local time, and that no further clock adjustments would occur afterwards. That is, Ulaanbaatar would simply change its time zone from 8 to 9 hours ahead of UTC on a designated date and time. If my guess is correct, it might be better for Mongolia to change its clocks in spring and not in autumn, as moving clocks forward in autumn works against the normal pattern of sunsets coming earlier in autumn. Also, it would make sense to review "Costs and benefits of time shifts", which summarizes scientific reviews of whether and when to change time zones. Please see: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html#costs Finally, I echo Nick's request in <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-September/033044.html> for any information your government has about past time changes and boundaries between time zones in Mongolia, so we can correct any mistakes in TZDB concerning your country. Thank you.
Hi folks, As this mailing list has not yet received any updated information, has the government decided to keep the time the same through summer and not to make any changes for summer time, or are any decisions still being debated about changes for summer time? -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry On 2023-09-19 21:29, fr via tz wrote:
Dear Mr. Paul, Thank you for you prompt response. The Government of Mongolia is planning to switch to the summer time schedule which also switch back in the autumn. Therefore, once we publish the official decision in October, we will contact you as soon as possible for the process. Thank you again for your kind efforts. Sincerely, Ms. Ariuntuul --- Foreign Cooperation Division Ministry of Digital Development and Communications The Government of Mongolia Tel: +976 51 260636 www.mddc.gov.mn <http://www.mddc.gov.mn>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *From: *Paul <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> *To: *Ariuntuul <fr@mddc.gov.mn> *Cc: *Delgermaa.G <delgermaa.g@mddc.gov.mn>; Time <tz@iana.org> *Date: *Wednesday, 20 September 2023 5:12 AM +08 *Subject: *Re: [tz] Ministry of Digital Development and Communications, the Government of Mongolia
CAUTION: This email originated from outside your organization. Exercise caution when opening attachments or on clicking links from unknown senders.
On 2023-09-19 01:00, fr via tz wrote: > The Government of Mongolia is planning to switch to the regular summer time from 22-26 March, 2024. Currently, the discussions are made within the Government as well as at the Parliament. We expect that final decision will be made in the October. Therefore, is it possible to arrange the switching process in the next 5 months? Is there any extraordinary cases like us or not? Or shall we make our changes in the September 2024?
Thank you for letting us know.
If the Mongolian government publishes its official decision in October and notifies us, we can generate a new TZDB release quickly. However, it will take some months for this release to trickle out to cell phones, computers, and other devices, because many intermediaries check TZDB data before redistributing it, and because users often wait for some time before installing updates. This is why we suggest a year's notice for changes. (Even a year's notice is not perfect, as some devices will never be updated, but one cannot wait forever.)
With five months' notice many devices will be updated, but it is hard to predict how many. So it is a judgment call as to whether five months is enough for Mongolia. Although the TZDB project suggests twelve months' notice, this is not a strict requirement.
Although it is not clear from your email, I guess that the government of Mongolia plans to switch its time zone permanently, so that clocks in Ulaanbaatar would move forward one hour on (say) March 29, 2025 at 02:00 local time, and that no further clock adjustments would occur afterwards. That is, Ulaanbaatar would simply change its time zone from 8 to 9 hours ahead of UTC on a designated date and time.
If my guess is correct, it might be better for Mongolia to change its clocks in spring and not in autumn, as moving clocks forward in autumn works against the normal pattern of sunsets coming earlier in autumn.
Also, it would make sense to review "Costs and benefits of time shifts", which summarizes scientific reviews of whether and when to change time zones. Please see:
https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html#costs
Finally, I echo Nick's request in <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2023-September/033044.html> for any information your government has about past time changes and boundaries between time zones in Mongolia, so we can correct any mistakes in TZDB concerning your country.
Thank you.
participants (4)
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Brian Inglis -
Brian Inglis -
fr -
Paul Eggert