2-hour DST during 2020 Tokyo Olympics?

Prompted by the recent deadly heat wave in Japan, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe met yesterday with the president of the 2020 Tokyo Olympic organizing committee, and discussed whether to introduce one or two hours of daylight saving time during the 2020 Olympics to help beat that summer's heat. Although Japan's 2020 Olympics bid said that Tokyo's July/August climate has "many days of mild and sunny weather" and is "an ideal climate for athletes to perform at their best", in reality a Tokyo summer's heat and humidity can be brutal: summer temperatures regularly get to 35°C (95°F) and last week peaked at 41°C (106°F). The International Olympic Committee has agreed to allow staging the marathon at 07:00 to beat the heat. "Why not 05:00? the sun will already be up then," Tokyo residents may be thinking. Apparently the recent heat wave has caused organizers to think the same thing, as a 2-hour DST would advance the event's effective starting time to 05:00 by the sun while still keeping it nominally at 07:00. Although the 1964 Tokyo Games were held in October to avoid heat, this was before the Olympics schedule was subject to the scheduling demands of broadcasters and sponsors. The 2016 Rio de Janeiro Summer Olympics ratings were down 9% from 2012 (including digital streaming) and event dates will be an important factor in the 2020 ratings. Although a 2-hour DST would presumably affect attendance and ratings only in Japan, that alone is a significant concern for the event's organizers. My sources: Tokyo weighs daylight saving time for Olympics as heat wave incinerates weather descriptions used for 2020 Games bid. Japan Times. 2018-07-28. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/07/28/national/tokyo-weighs-daylight-... OLYMPICS/2020 Tokyo organizers consider daylight saving to beat heat. Asahi Shimbun. 2018-07-28. http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201807280009.html

It always boggles the mind when people think it somehow helps to move the clocks instead of just changing the event times. ________________________________ From: tz <tz-bounces@iana.org> on behalf of Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 12:33:57 PM To: Time zone mailing list Subject: [tz] 2-hour DST during 2020 Tokyo Olympics? Prompted by the recent deadly heat wave in Japan, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe met yesterday with the president of the 2020 Tokyo Olympic organizing committee, and discussed whether to introduce one or two hours of daylight saving time during the 2020 Olympics to help beat that summer's heat. Although Japan's 2020 Olympics bid said that Tokyo's July/August climate has "many days of mild and sunny weather" and is "an ideal climate for athletes to perform at their best", in reality a Tokyo summer's heat and humidity can be brutal: summer temperatures regularly get to 35°C (95°F) and last week peaked at 41°C (106°F). The International Olympic Committee has agreed to allow staging the marathon at 07:00 to beat the heat. "Why not 05:00? the sun will already be up then," Tokyo residents may be thinking. Apparently the recent heat wave has caused organizers to think the same thing, as a 2-hour DST would advance the event's effective starting time to 05:00 by the sun while still keeping it nominally at 07:00. Although the 1964 Tokyo Games were held in October to avoid heat, this was before the Olympics schedule was subject to the scheduling demands of broadcasters and sponsors. The 2016 Rio de Janeiro Summer Olympics ratings were down 9% from 2012 (including digital streaming) and event dates will be an important factor in the 2020 ratings. Although a 2-hour DST would presumably affect attendance and ratings only in Japan, that alone is a significant concern for the event's organizers. My sources: Tokyo weighs daylight saving time for Olympics as heat wave incinerates weather descriptions used for 2020 Games bid. Japan Times. 2018-07-28. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/07/28/national/tokyo-weighs-daylight-... OLYMPICS/2020 Tokyo organizers consider daylight saving to beat heat. Asahi Shimbun. 2018-07-28. http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201807280009.html

Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 21:26:51 +0000 From: Matt Johnson <mj1856@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <BN6PR22MB06916D450199840D93353682C2290@BN6PR22MB0691.namprd22.prod.outlook.com> | It always boggles the mind when people think it somehow helps to move the | clocks instead of just changing the event times. What boggles my mind is when people seriously make that infantile argument. First, let's assume for the sake of argument, that starting the Marathon (in Japan, 2020) at UTC 20:00 makes sense (which it might for all kinds of reasons, not the least being the European TV viewing public, and somewhere in there just perhaps the health & comfort of the athletes). Now of course it could simply be held in Japan (UTC+0900) at 05:00 local time, which accomplishes that - by changing the event times (from the more normal 07:00 start.) But now, consider yourself having a product to sell in Japan (running shoes, energy drinks, ...) for which the Marathon is a natural "big event" - the audience are your marketplace. Which would you be willing to pay more for, TV ads in the 05:00-08:00 timeslot, or TV ads in the 07:00-10:00 timeslot (local time) ? Which is likely to have the bigger audience? Which will the tV companies make more profit from, and hence lobby for? And then there is the event itself. One of the things the organisers want is a whole lot of local people (and random tourists in to watch the Olympics) lining the streets and cheering the athletes. It looks good on TV. Is that more likely to happen at 05:00-07:30 or 07:00-09:30 (local time) ? Of course, people could be convinced to wake up earlier if working hours, and school hours were moved from 09:00-17:00 (or 08:00-whenever, whatever they are) to 07:00-15:00 (or 06:00 to ...). So, let's do that as well. Now people will be awake, go out onto the streets, or watch on TV But now those people need to get to work (or school) earlier (local time) so the busses and trains all have to move peak hour forward by two hours - lots more trains and busses need to be running earlier. But that's now moved their working day out of "nprmal" hours, and into "double time" hours according to the union agreements, so the drivers (and station workers, and...) all have to be paid more, so the ticket prices all need to be raised, and ... The flow on of other changes needed to keep society working is almost beyond comprehension. Or .... the clocks can be moved forward by 2 hours. Now the event is 07:00-10:00 (prime morning viewing time) people are awake to go out and watch the runners go past, the busses are running as normal, with the drivers all paid normal wages. All that has changed (locally) is the local time of sunup/sunset/... (and the sun really does not care!) Of course, there are other considerations, that's why there are discussions, rather than simply a decision. But to say "just move the event time" as if it were the obvious solution, and nothing else is worthy of consideration is absurd. kre

On 28/07/18 23:54, Robert Elz wrote:
Of course, there are other considerations, that's why there are discussions, rather than simply a decision. But to say "just move the event time" as if it were the obvious solution, and nothing else is worthy of consideration is absurd.
On the whole I agree with what you say ... when it comes to one of activities such as the Olympics. But the overseas viewing 'sales' probably out trump the local advertising? The events WILL be scheduled more for commercial gain than perhaps the 'comfort and safety' of the competitors? The more general discussion on whether DST has a place at all these days may well be a case of "just move the event time" since in many places the '9 to 5' day hasn't been observed for a long time? So changing the start time of the few remaining activities to 'make best use of daylight' seems a lot more sensible than moving everybody's clock twice a year? Staggering starting times might help transport systems cope with the numbers rather than having one 'peak time' as well. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

They are talking about moving the clock by "1 to 2 hours" according to some reports, from the spring before Olympic to the autumn after Olympic for the entire Japan. Seems like the current PM Abe think it "might also be a solution" and there are now a rough proposal within the government to have a "trial implementation" next year in 2019 for the Olympic game. However some other members of the government are not enthusiastic about the proposal. The Tokyo Olympic organization committee requested it as a one-off implementation but they also suggest "it could be a legacy of the Olympic for Japan to move forward to a low CO2 emission society." Law changes will be needed if they want to implement the summer time for the Olympic. As it is going to be controversial, and given that it have been already almost 70 years since Japan last used summer time, the time for preparation will be really tight if it is going to be implemented. ---- And, the following is purely hypothetical for tz database as the proposal being suggested was to implement DST for the entire Japan. As a thought experiment, what if, instead of following the proposal, they hypothetically do: - In case if a clock is created specifically for Olympic venues, how could tz database record it? Not just that there are no city in those venues that can name the zone after but also that those venues are separated all over the places and they are also just a temporary instead if permanent location that would only function as Olympic venue during the period of Olympic - In case if only Tokyo (and its surrounding area) get DST? A new record would be created in tz database for rest of Japan without DST to complement Asia/Tokyo that would have DST in this hypothetical situation, but how can users outside Tokyo be pushed to manually change their device timezone from Asia/Tokyo to the new time zone? In many cases the Asia/Japan zone would be labelled as something like either "Japan Standard Time" or "Osaka, Sapporo, Tokyo" in UI and people might also not understand why any actions would be needed if it is only Tokyo that is changing the time.

Phake Nick wrote:
- In case if a clock is created specifically for Olympic venues, how could tz database record it?
In theory we could have an Asia/Tokyo-2020-Olympics zone but I'd rather not, as it doesn't fit into the naming scheme. (Heh, maybe it should be Games/Olympic/2020 instead....)
- In case if only Tokyo (and its surrounding area) get DST?
I suppose we'd create a new zone Asia/Osaka that would eschew DST. I looked into the English-language coverage and my impression is they're leaning towards "no". Although Toshiro Muto, director-general of the organizing committee, says that DST is "the only way" to deal with the heat, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said only that DST "may be a solution" and Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga (the Number 2 in Japan) said that DST would "have major impacts on people’s daily lives". My favorite was Akira Koike, the head of the Japanese Communist Party, who said in a Monday news conference that DST will "send Japan into turmoil as adjustments would be needed for computer systems and many others". In the meantime, starting times seem to be mutating a bit. The triathlon start has moved from 10:00 to 08:00. In other news, trees are being planted along the marathon course for shade, and a layer of solar heat-blocking pavement will be put on roadways. I'd never heard of solar heat-blocking pavement until today. My sources: Japanese government lukewarm on idea of daylight saving time during 2020 Tokyo Games. Japan Times. 2018-07-31. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/07/31/national/japanese-government-lu... Triathlon latest sport to adapt to Tokyo 2020 heat concerns. SportBusiness. 2018-08-02. https://www.sportbusiness.com/sport-news/triathlon-latest-sport-adapt-tokyo-... Ewing L. Canadian athletes prepare for soaring temperatures at Tokyo Summer Olympics in 2020. The Globe and Mail. 2018-08-03. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/article-canadian-athletes-pr...

On 5 Aug 2018, at 05:09, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
Phake Nick wrote:
- In case if a clock is created specifically for Olympic venues, how could tz database record it?
In theory we could have an Asia/Tokyo-2020-Olympics zone but I'd rather not, as it doesn't fit into the naming scheme. (Heh, maybe it should be Games/Olympic/2020 instead....)
- In case if only Tokyo (and its surrounding area) get DST?
I suppose we'd create a new zone Asia/Osaka that would eschew DST.
I looked into the English-language coverage and my impression is they're leaning towards "no". Although Toshiro Muto, director-general of the organizing committee, says that DST is "the only way" to deal with the heat, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said only that DST "may be a solution" and Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga (the Number 2 in Japan) said that DST would "have major impacts on people’s daily lives". My favorite was Akira Koike, the head of the Japanese Communist Party, who said in a Monday news conference that DST will "send Japan into turmoil as adjustments would be needed for computer systems and many others".
In the meantime, starting times seem to be mutating a bit. The triathlon start has moved from 10:00 to 08:00. In other news, trees are being planted along the marathon course for shade, and a layer of solar heat-blocking pavement will be put on roadways. I'd never heard of solar heat-blocking pavement until today.
My sources:
Japanese government lukewarm on idea of daylight saving time during 2020 Tokyo Games. Japan Times. 2018-07-31. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/07/31/national/japanese-government-lu...
Triathlon latest sport to adapt to Tokyo 2020 heat concerns. SportBusiness. 2018-08-02. https://www.sportbusiness.com/sport-news/triathlon-latest-sport-adapt-tokyo-...
Ewing L. Canadian athletes prepare for soaring temperatures at Tokyo Summer Olympics in 2020. The Globe and Mail. 2018-08-03. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/article-canadian-athletes-pr...
Not time related, but anyone else wondering "What? How?" for heat blocking road surfaces: http://www.miracool.jp/thesis/thesis16/2848/ Summary: high albedo for near infrared, low albedo for visible. jch

Report say Japanese PM Abe have already instructed his party to start considering DST implementation as early as possible, and the party will start designing the law for DST after the Obon holiday in the mid-August acvording to multiple sources related to the ruling party LDP. Reports claim that LDP will aim at proposing the law changes at the Diet session this fall, and because it is directly connected to citizens so they would want the congressman to propose it as an inter-party proposals instead of a submission from the government. In the mean time, the ruling party is planning to have a two-stage review on the proposal, which in the first stage they will form a alliance of congressman to gather the benefits and shortcoming of implementing DST, and then the central decision-making committee will make a decision based on it. Report claims the plan is to apply the 2-hour DST from June to August. 2019 will be a trial implementation of the DST, which would enable improvement afterward, and in 2020 it will be the actual implementation. According to an anonymous officer of the LDP party, while the initial plan was to implement the DST only for year 2019 and 2020, because the necessary changes to IT-related systems everytime a switch is to be make is huge, so there are also plan to make the DST continues after the Olympics. And that they are also discussing with opposition parties regarding the issue. Related news articles (Japanese): https://www.hochi.co.jp/topics/20180808-OHT1T50025.html https://r.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO3390420007082018PP8000?s=2 https://www.sankei.com/smp/politics/news/180806/plt1808060002-s1.html
participants (6)
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John Haxby
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Lester Caine
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Matt Johnson
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Paul Eggert
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Phake Nick
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Robert Elz