Hello, Over the coming days the infrastructure behind this mailing list will be upgraded. IANA hosts a number of operational mailing lists using ICANN's mailing list infrastructure. This infrastructure is currently undergoing a major upgrade, including to the mailman software that operates this list. Users should not observe a difference except for modernization of the mailing list administration website. Mailing list archives will move to a new archiver, but old archives will be retained to preserve references to archived messages. The archives may be delayed by several hours during the migration. We will send an announcement following the migration that will also serve as a confirmation of the operational status of the mailing list and will provide a link to the new archives. If you have problems caused by the migration, please contact the IANA team at iana@iana.org so we may help remedy them. Best regards, David Dong IANA Services Sr. Specialist
Hello, The list migration has been completed. If you have problems with mail delivery or routing for this list, please contact the IANA team at iana@iana.org so we may help remedy them. Please find the new administration interface, including the new archives, at https://lists.iana.org/postorius/lists/tz.iana.org/. Best regards, David Dong IANA Services Sr. Specialist From: David Dong <david.dong@iana.org> Date: Wednesday, August 7, 2024 at 4:48 PM To: "tz@iana.org" <tz@iana.org> Subject: Mailman Upgrade Announcement Hello, Over the coming days the infrastructure behind this mailing list will be upgraded. IANA hosts a number of operational mailing lists using ICANN's mailing list infrastructure. This infrastructure is currently undergoing a major upgrade, including to the mailman software that operates this list. Users should not observe a difference except for modernization of the mailing list administration website. Mailing list archives will move to a new archiver, but old archives will be retained to preserve references to archived messages. The archives may be delayed by several hours during the migration. We will send an announcement following the migration that will also serve as a confirmation of the operational status of the mailing list and will provide a link to the new archives. If you have problems caused by the migration, please contact the IANA team at iana@iana.org so we may help remedy them. Best regards, David Dong IANA Services Sr. Specialist
On 2024-08-15 10:33, David Dong via tz wrote:
Please find the new administration interface, including the new archives, at https://lists.iana.org/postorius/lists/tz.iana.org/.
Thanks for doing all that. I've looked at it and it's nicer when viewing it from a cell phone. As with any transition like this there are bound to be some glitches (especially visible to old-timers used to the previous software :-). Here are some issues I found; could you please take a look at them? Thanks. * The old pipermail archive's pages link to <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/tz>, which has been removed so the links are now dangling. Please restore that URL, to a page that says this is an archive that stops at 2024-08-07 and that points to the new archive. * Please also modify the old pipermail archive's main page <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/> so that it also says the archive is frozen and points to the new archive. * The new URLs are longer and harder to cite. For example, the "europe" file contains this: # Eire rules cause problems with tests for ICU: # https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2018-January/025825.html # and with tests for OpenJDK: # https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2018-January/025822.html Although these old links still work, I suppose we should change them to point to the newer links. However, with hyperkitty the URL comments would be something like this: # Eire rules cause problems with tests for ICU: # https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/message/7NHC5PBNG6KDE74FF... # and with tests for OpenJDK: # https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/message/KGHCGLF4C7JE7UDKX... These are too long to fit in the traditional 80-column text format that much of TZDB uses uses in commentary. Is there any way to shorten these URLs? This issue will come up when citing future messages, where the old URL scheme will no longer work. * I normally view archives from a big screen not a cell phone, and on big screens the older archive view is easier to use. For example, contrast the old pipermail view with the new hyperkitty view of July's email: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2024-July/thread.html https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/2024/7/ On a big screen the pipermail format is significantly easier to read: it fits on one page and succinctly summarizes the month's emails. The hyperkitty format is so verbose that it doesn't fit on a single screen, and it doesn't immediately show relationships between the messages. The hyperkitty format is even more verbose if I disable JavaScript, which I normally do for security reasons. Is there some way to get a hyperkitty thread listing that has more of the virtues of the pipermail thread listing? * Is there some way to see a simple "sort messages by date" without any threading, such as pipermail gives in <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2024-July/date.html>? I use that capability on occasion - for example, as a quick check to see if anything's happened. * In the main archive URL <https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/latest>, when I press the "Threads by month" button I see an extremely long popup that doesn't fit on the screen and is hard to navigate. Can we instead get something more like <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/>. * One of my biggest beef with the old pipermail installation is that it mishandled email with Content-Type format=flowed. I figured that this feature was absent simply because the pipermail installation was too old. But I see that hyperkitty also mishandles such email. For example, this message: https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/message/M3PLKETYBJ32KEHKE... has "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed" in its header, but hyperkitty incorrectly renders it with hard newlines after both "been" and "happens" even though they are followed by SP CR LF in the original text which means the text should have flowed. Anyway, thanks again for doing the migration, and I hope this email helps to make it even better.
On 2024-08-18 13:26, Paul Eggert wrote:
# https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/message/ KGHCGLF4C7JE7UDKXU5DTMVKAKC3PR56/
These are too long to fit in the traditional 80-column text format that much of TZDB uses uses in commentary.
For now, in TZDB let's update just the main archive links; we can worry about the links to individual emails later. I installed the attached proposed patch into the developmental database on GitHub.
On 2024-08-18 21:16, Paul Eggert via tz wrote:
On 2024-08-18 13:26, Paul Eggert wrote:
# https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/message/ KGHCGLF4C7JE7UDKXU5DTMVKAKC3PR56/
These are too long to fit in the traditional 80-column text format that much of TZDB uses uses in commentary.
For now, in TZDB let's update just the main archive links; we can worry about the links to individual emails later. I installed the attached proposed patch into the developmental database on GitHub.
Hi folks, A few observations about the new lists and archives: - lists.iana.org now links to lists.iana.org/postorius/lists Mailing Lists with two links for List and Archives: - Lists does nothing - this should also link to hyperkitty or show list names with direct links; - Archives links to lists.iana.org/hyperkitty and shows Available lists; - tz-announce is shown as inactive and greyed out: you have to click on its link, then the All threads link to see anything: this should be the default on announce-only lists. For those who like or prefer Atom/RSS feeds to get the gist: Atom/RSS feed https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/feed Threads https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/latest Atom/RSS feed https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz-announce@iana.org/feed Threads https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz-announce@iana.org/latest -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Thanks all for your feedback. I’ll work through this and look to provide solutions where feasible. Thanks, James Mitchell IANA From: Brian Inglis via tz <tz@iana.org> Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: "tz@iana.org" <tz@iana.org>, "brian.inglis@systematicsw.ab.ca" <brian.inglis@systematicsw.ab.ca> Date: Monday, August 19, 2024 at 11:50 AM To: Time zone mailing list <tz@iana.org> Subject: [tz] Re: Mailman Upgrade Announcement On 2024-08-18 21:16, Paul Eggert via tz wrote: On 2024-08-18 13:26, Paul Eggert wrote: # tz@iana.org<https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/%3ca%20href=>/message/">https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org<mailto:tz@iana.org>/message/ KGHCGLF4C7JE7UDKXU5DTMVKAKC3PR56/ These are too long to fit in the traditional 80-column text format that much of TZDB uses uses in commentary. For now, in TZDB let's update just the main archive links; we can worry about the links to individual emails later. I installed the attached proposed patch into the developmental database on GitHub. Hi folks, A few observations about the new lists and archives: - lists.iana.org now links to lists.iana.org/postorius/lists Mailing Lists with two links for List and Archives: - Lists does nothing - this should also link to hyperkitty or show list names with direct links; - Archives links to lists.iana.org/hyperkitty and shows Available lists; - tz-announce is shown as inactive and greyed out: you have to click on its link, then the All threads link to see anything: this should be the default on announce-only lists. For those who like or prefer Atom/RSS feeds to get the gist: Atom/RSS feed tz@iana.org<https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/%3ca%20href=>/feed">https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org<mailto:tz@iana.org>/feed Threads tz@iana.org<https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/%3ca%20href=>/latest">https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org<mailto:tz@iana.org>/latest Atom/RSS feed tz-announce@iana.org<https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/%3ca%20href=>/feed">https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz-announce@iana.org<mailto:tz-announce@iana.org>/feed Threads tz-announce@iana.org<https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/%3ca%20href=>/latest">https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz-announce@iana.org<mailto:tz-announce@iana.org>/latest -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
...and it mangles URLs from text posts in replies! ;^> On 2024-08-27 14:12, James Mitchell via tz wrote:
Thanks all for your feedback.
I’ll work through this and look to provide solutions where feasible.
Thanks,
James Mitchell
IANA
*From: *Brian Inglis via tz <tz@iana.org> *Organization: *Systematic Software *Reply-To: *"tz@iana.org" <tz@iana.org>, "brian.inglis@systematicsw.ab.ca" <brian.inglis@systematicsw.ab.ca> *Date: *Monday, August 19, 2024 at 11:50 AM *To: *Time zone mailing list <tz@iana.org> *Subject: *[tz] Re: Mailman Upgrade Announcement
On 2024-08-18 21:16, Paul Eggert via tz wrote:
On 2024-08-18 13:26, Paul Eggert wrote:
# tz@iana.org <https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/%3ca%20href=>/message/">https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org <mailto:tz@iana.org>/message/
KGHCGLF4C7JE7UDKXU5DTMVKAKC3PR56/
These are too long to fit in the traditional 80-column text format that much
of TZDB uses uses in commentary.
For now, in TZDB let's update just the main archive links; we can worry about
the links to individual emails later. I installed the attached proposed patch
into the developmental database on GitHub.
Hi folks,
A few observations about the new lists and archives:
- lists.iana.org now links to lists.iana.org/postorius/lists Mailing Lists with
two links for List and Archives:
- Lists does nothing - this should also link to hyperkitty or show list names
with direct links;
- Archives links to lists.iana.org/hyperkitty and shows Available lists;
- tz-announce is shown as inactive and greyed out: you have to click on its
link, then the All threads link to see anything: this should be the default on
announce-only lists.
For those who like or prefer Atom/RSS feeds to get the gist:
Atom/RSS feedtz@iana.org <https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/%3ca%20href=>/feed">https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org <mailto:tz@iana.org>/feed
Threadstz@iana.org <https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/%3ca%20href=>/latest">https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org <mailto:tz@iana.org>/latest
Atom/RSS feedtz-announce@iana.org <https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/%3ca%20href=>/feed">https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz-announce@iana.org <mailto:tz-announce@iana.org>/feed
Threadstz-announce@iana.org <https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/%3ca%20href=>/latest">https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz-announce@iana.org <mailto:tz-announce@iana.org>/latest
--
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada
La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved
non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add
mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
participants (4)
-
brian.inglis＠systematicsw.ab.ca -
David Dong -
James Mitchell -
Paul Eggert