Re: Daylight Saving Time in Brazil
Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> writes:
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/TimePrecision-HOWTO/tz.html#tz.examples
[I'll CC: this message to Avi Alkalay, who maintains that web page, so that he can correct its time zone abbreviations as he sees fit.] As far as I can see, the abbreviations used in the above-referenced table are merely examples and are not meant to be recommendations. Abbreviations like "BRDT" would not correspond to common Brazilian practice, which is to use the Portuguese equivalent of "summer time" rather than "daylight time". As is stated in the tz tables' comments, in 1999 I invented the abbreviations BRT/BRST, AMT/AMST, etc., that are used in the current tz tables for Brazil. As far as I know nobody else has needed, or uses, English-language acronyms for the Brazilian time zone. However, should an alternate tradition arise in practice, of course we'd prefer to use the English-language abbreviations that people are actually using, as opposed to abbreviations that we have invented.
Hi Paul! I know Avi Alkalay, AFAIK he still works in IBM Brazil (I did). Let´s wait for his answer. I agree with you - the english term more similar to ours ("Horario de Verao") is Summer Time. But DST (Daylight Saving Time) seems to be the most popular around the globe. We learned that applications such as MySQL are affected by using non-GLIBC-compliant abbreviations. Are you aware of something like that? I hope we together solve this confusion. As I stated in my last message, there should be a FAQ entry. The only clear explanation is on "glibc-x.x.x/timezone/southamerica", too hidden :-) Regards, -- Ronaldo C Vasconcellos CAIS/RNP Security Incidents Response Center Brazilian Research and Academic Network http://www.rnp.br/en/cais On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Paul Eggert wrote:
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:48:29 -0700 From: Paul Eggert <eggert@CS.UCLA.EDU> To: Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> Cc: The GNU C Library Steering Committee <glibc-sc@gnu.org>, Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>, tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov, avi@unix.sh Subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time in Brazil
As far as I can see, the abbreviations used in the above-referenced table are merely examples and are not meant to be recommendations. Abbreviations like "BRDT" would not correspond to common Brazilian practice, which is to use the Portuguese equivalent of "summer time" rather than "daylight time".
As is stated in the tz tables' comments, in 1999 I invented the abbreviations BRT/BRST, AMT/AMST, etc., that are used in the current tz tables for Brazil. As far as I know nobody else has needed, or uses, English-language acronyms for the Brazilian time zone. However, should an alternate tradition arise in practice, of course we'd prefer to use the English-language abbreviations that people are actually using, as opposed to abbreviations that we have invented.
I'm waiting for this discussion to happen since I wrote that HOWTO. Ironically, I found this thread in my GMail SPAM folder. In my research for the HOWTO I couldn't find any standards for brazilian timezone names. This fact didn't surprise me.... So I invented one. The updated brazilian zic file is being maintained by me and contributors at: http://avi.alkalay.net/software/zoneinfo/ Contributors keep sending me data for other LatAm countries, found there also. I proposed this: # BREST: East of Brasilia. Fernando de Noronha. # BRST: Brasilia, São Paulo, Rio, Northeast, South etc # BRWST: West of Brasilia. Mato Grosso, Manaus # BRAST: Acre. # In daylight saving time, letter 'S' changes to 'D'. I have a friend at http://registro.br and we discussed a litlle bit on how to propose this as a standard for Brazil. In fact he is now the registro.br<http://registro.br>'s general manager. We didn't go further with the discussion, and nothing happened in the end, but we agreed that this is something to be defined together with the Observatorio Nacional. I'll be more than happy to help making this - or any other better convetion - to become a standard. Regards, Avi On 10/11/05, Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> wrote:
Hi Paul!
I know Avi Alkalay, AFAIK he still works in IBM Brazil (I did). Let´s wait for his answer.
I agree with you - the english term more similar to ours ("Horario de Verao") is Summer Time. But DST (Daylight Saving Time) seems to be the most popular around the globe.
We learned that applications such as MySQL are affected by using non-GLIBC-compliant abbreviations. Are you aware of something like that?
I hope we together solve this confusion. As I stated in my last message, there should be a FAQ entry. The only clear explanation is on "glibc-x.x.x/timezone/southamerica", too hidden :-)
Regards,
-- Ronaldo C Vasconcellos
CAIS/RNP Security Incidents Response Center Brazilian Research and Academic Network http://www.rnp.br/en/cais
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Paul Eggert wrote:
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:48:29 -0700 From: Paul Eggert <eggert@CS.UCLA.EDU> To: Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> Cc: The GNU C Library Steering Committee <glibc-sc@gnu.org>, Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>, tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov, avi@unix.sh Subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time in Brazil
As far as I can see, the abbreviations used in the above-referenced table are merely examples and are not meant to be recommendations. Abbreviations like "BRDT" would not correspond to common Brazilian practice, which is to use the Portuguese equivalent of "summer time" rather than "daylight time".
As is stated in the tz tables' comments, in 1999 I invented the abbreviations BRT/BRST, AMT/AMST, etc., that are used in the current tz tables for Brazil. As far as I know nobody else has needed, or uses, English-language acronyms for the Brazilian time zone. However, should an alternate tradition arise in practice, of course we'd prefer to use the English-language abbreviations that people are actually using, as opposed to abbreviations that we have invented.
Hi Avi, Seems like we have two inventors here: you and Paul :-) Jokes apart, would you put us in contact with your friend from Registro.br? I just got a contact on ON. Regards, -- Ronaldo C Vasconcellos CAIS/RNP Security Incidents Response Center Brazilian Research and Academic Network http://www.rnp.br/en/cais On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Avi Alkalay wrote:
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:24:07 -0300 From: Avi Alkalay <avi@unix.sh> To: Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br>, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>, The GNU C Library Steering Committee <glibc-sc@gnu.org>, Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>, tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov Subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time in Brazil
I'm waiting for this discussion to happen since I wrote that HOWTO. Ironically, I found this thread in my GMail SPAM folder.
In my research for the HOWTO I couldn't find any standards for brazilian timezone names. This fact didn't surprise me.... So I invented one.
The updated brazilian zic file is being maintained by me and contributors at: http://avi.alkalay.net/software/zoneinfo/
Contributors keep sending me data for other LatAm countries, found there also.
I proposed this:
# BREST: East of Brasilia. Fernando de Noronha. # BRST: Brasilia, São Paulo, Rio, Northeast, South etc # BRWST: West of Brasilia. Mato Grosso, Manaus # BRAST: Acre.
# In daylight saving time, letter 'S' changes to 'D'.
I have a friend at http://registro.br and we discussed a litlle bit on how to propose this as a standard for Brazil. In fact he is now the registro.br<http://registro.br>'s general manager. We didn't go further with the discussion, and nothing happened in the end, but we agreed that this is something to be defined together with the Observatorio Nacional.
I'll be more than happy to help making this - or any other better convetion - to become a standard.
Regards, Avi
On 10/11/05, Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> wrote:
Hi Paul!
I know Avi Alkalay, AFAIK he still works in IBM Brazil (I did). Let´s wait for his answer.
I agree with you - the english term more similar to ours ("Horario de Verao") is Summer Time. But DST (Daylight Saving Time) seems to be the most popular around the globe.
We learned that applications such as MySQL are affected by using non-GLIBC-compliant abbreviations. Are you aware of something like that?
I hope we together solve this confusion. As I stated in my last message, there should be a FAQ entry. The only clear explanation is on "glibc-x.x.x/timezone/southamerica", too hidden :-)
Regards,
-- Ronaldo C Vasconcellos
CAIS/RNP Security Incidents Response Center Brazilian Research and Academic Network http://www.rnp.br/en/cais
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Paul Eggert wrote:
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:48:29 -0700 From: Paul Eggert <eggert@CS.UCLA.EDU> To: Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> Cc: The GNU C Library Steering Committee <glibc-sc@gnu.org>, Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>, tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov, avi@unix.sh Subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time in Brazil
As far as I can see, the abbreviations used in the above-referenced table are merely examples and are not meant to be recommendations. Abbreviations like "BRDT" would not correspond to common Brazilian practice, which is to use the Portuguese equivalent of "summer time" rather than "daylight time".
As is stated in the tz tables' comments, in 1999 I invented the abbreviations BRT/BRST, AMT/AMST, etc., that are used in the current tz tables for Brazil. As far as I know nobody else has needed, or uses, English-language acronyms for the Brazilian time zone. However, should an alternate tradition arise in practice, of course we'd prefer to use the English-language abbreviations that people are actually using, as opposed to abbreviations that we have invented.
Fred, we are trying to set a standard for Brazil's zone names, together with GLibc and ON. We think you may provide some contacts and help in this standarization. I proposed this: # BREST: East of Brasilia. Fernando de Noronha. # BRST: Brasilia, São Paulo, Rio, Northeast, South etc # BRWST: West of Brasilia. Mato Grosso, Manaus # BRAST: Acre. # In daylight saving time, letter 'S' changes to 'D'. There are some more proposals flying around. I am maintaining, with the help of some contributors, the Brazil zic file at http://www.alkalay.net/software/zoneinfo/ Thank you, Avi On 10/13/05, Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> wrote:
Hi Avi,
Seems like we have two inventors here: you and Paul :-)
Jokes apart, would you put us in contact with your friend from Registro.br <http://Registro.br>? I just got a contact on ON.
Regards,
-- Ronaldo C Vasconcellos
CAIS/RNP Security Incidents Response Center Brazilian Research and Academic Network http://www.rnp.br/en/cais
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Avi Alkalay wrote:
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:24:07 -0300 From: Avi Alkalay <avi@unix.sh> To: Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br>, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>, The GNU C Library Steering Committee <glibc-sc@gnu.org>, Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>, tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov Subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time in Brazil
I'm waiting for this discussion to happen since I wrote that HOWTO. Ironically, I found this thread in my GMail SPAM folder.
In my research for the HOWTO I couldn't find any standards for brazilian timezone names. This fact didn't surprise me.... So I invented one.
The updated brazilian zic file is being maintained by me and contributors at: http://avi.alkalay.net/software/zoneinfo/
Contributors keep sending me data for other LatAm countries, found there also.
I proposed this:
# BREST: East of Brasilia. Fernando de Noronha. # BRST: Brasilia, São Paulo, Rio, Northeast, South etc # BRWST: West of Brasilia. Mato Grosso, Manaus # BRAST: Acre.
# In daylight saving time, letter 'S' changes to 'D'.
I have a friend at http://registro.br and we discussed a litlle bit on how to propose this as a standard for Brazil. In fact he is now the registro.br <http://registro.br><http://registro.br>'s general manager. We didn't go further with the discussion, and nothing happened in the end, but we agreed that this is something to be defined together with the Observatorio Nacional.
I'll be more than happy to help making this - or any other better convetion - to become a standard.
Regards, Avi
On 10/11/05, Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> wrote:
Hi Paul!
I know Avi Alkalay, AFAIK he still works in IBM Brazil (I did). Let´s
wait
for his answer.
I agree with you - the english term more similar to ours ("Horario de Verao") is Summer Time. But DST (Daylight Saving Time) seems to be the most popular around the globe.
We learned that applications such as MySQL are affected by using non-GLIBC-compliant abbreviations. Are you aware of something like that?
I hope we together solve this confusion. As I stated in my last message, there should be a FAQ entry. The only clear explanation is on "glibc-x.x.x/timezone/southamerica", too hidden :-)
Regards,
-- Ronaldo C Vasconcellos
CAIS/RNP Security Incidents Response Center Brazilian Research and Academic Network http://www.rnp.br/en/cais
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Paul Eggert wrote:
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:48:29 -0700 From: Paul Eggert <eggert@CS.UCLA.EDU> To: Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> Cc: The GNU C Library Steering Committee <glibc-sc@gnu.org>, Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>, tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov, avi@unix.sh Subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time in Brazil
As far as I can see, the abbreviations used in the above-referenced table are merely examples and are not meant to be recommendations. Abbreviations like "BRDT" would not correspond to common Brazilian practice, which is to use the Portuguese equivalent of "summer time" rather than "daylight time".
As is stated in the tz tables' comments, in 1999 I invented the abbreviations BRT/BRST, AMT/AMST, etc., that are used in the current tz tables for Brazil. As far as I know nobody else has needed, or uses, English-language acronyms for the Brazilian time zone. However, should an alternate tradition arise in practice, of course we'd prefer to use the English-language abbreviations that people are actually using, as opposed to abbreviations that we have invented.
Welcome to the discussion, Fred! Regards, -- Ronaldo C Vasconcellos CAIS/RNP Security Incidents Response Center Brazilian Research and Academic Network http://www.rnp.br/en/cais On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Avi Alkalay wrote:
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:16:36 -0300 From: Avi Alkalay <avibrazil@gmail.com> To: Frederico A C Neves <fneves@registro.br> Cc: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>, The GNU C Library Steering Committee <glibc-sc@gnu.org>, Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>, tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov, Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> Subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time in Brazil
Fred, we are trying to set a standard for Brazil's zone names, together with GLibc and ON. We think you may provide some contacts and help in this standarization.
I proposed this:
# BREST: East of Brasilia. Fernando de Noronha. # BRST: Brasilia, São Paulo, Rio, Northeast, South etc # BRWST: West of Brasilia. Mato Grosso, Manaus # BRAST: Acre.
# In daylight saving time, letter 'S' changes to 'D'.
There are some more proposals flying around.
I am maintaining, with the help of some contributors, the Brazil zic file at http://www.alkalay.net/software/zoneinfo/
Thank you, Avi
On 10/13/05, Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> wrote:
Hi Avi,
Seems like we have two inventors here: you and Paul :-)
Jokes apart, would you put us in contact with your friend from Registro.br <http://Registro.br>? I just got a contact on ON.
Regards,
-- Ronaldo C Vasconcellos
CAIS/RNP Security Incidents Response Center Brazilian Research and Academic Network http://www.rnp.br/en/cais
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Avi Alkalay wrote:
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:24:07 -0300 From: Avi Alkalay <avi@unix.sh> To: Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br>, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>, The GNU C Library Steering Committee <glibc-sc@gnu.org>, Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>, tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov Subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time in Brazil
I'm waiting for this discussion to happen since I wrote that HOWTO. Ironically, I found this thread in my GMail SPAM folder.
In my research for the HOWTO I couldn't find any standards for brazilian timezone names. This fact didn't surprise me.... So I invented one.
The updated brazilian zic file is being maintained by me and contributors at: http://avi.alkalay.net/software/zoneinfo/
Contributors keep sending me data for other LatAm countries, found there also.
I proposed this:
# BREST: East of Brasilia. Fernando de Noronha. # BRST: Brasilia, São Paulo, Rio, Northeast, South etc # BRWST: West of Brasilia. Mato Grosso, Manaus # BRAST: Acre.
# In daylight saving time, letter 'S' changes to 'D'.
I have a friend at http://registro.br and we discussed a litlle bit on how to propose this as a standard for Brazil. In fact he is now the registro.br <http://registro.br><http://registro.br>'s general manager. We didn't go further with the discussion, and nothing happened in the end, but we agreed that this is something to be defined together with the Observatorio Nacional.
I'll be more than happy to help making this - or any other better convetion - to become a standard.
Regards, Avi
On 10/11/05, Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> wrote:
Hi Paul!
I know Avi Alkalay, AFAIK he still works in IBM Brazil (I did). Let´s
wait
for his answer.
I agree with you - the english term more similar to ours ("Horario de Verao") is Summer Time. But DST (Daylight Saving Time) seems to be the most popular around the globe.
We learned that applications such as MySQL are affected by using non-GLIBC-compliant abbreviations. Are you aware of something like that?
I hope we together solve this confusion. As I stated in my last message, there should be a FAQ entry. The only clear explanation is on "glibc-x.x.x/timezone/southamerica", too hidden :-)
Regards,
-- Ronaldo C Vasconcellos
CAIS/RNP Security Incidents Response Center Brazilian Research and Academic Network http://www.rnp.br/en/cais
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Paul Eggert wrote:
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:48:29 -0700 From: Paul Eggert <eggert@CS.UCLA.EDU> To: Ronaldo Vasconcellos <ronaldo@cais.rnp.br> Cc: The GNU C Library Steering Committee <glibc-sc@gnu.org>, Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>, tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov, avi@unix.sh Subject: Re: Daylight Saving Time in Brazil
As far as I can see, the abbreviations used in the above-referenced table are merely examples and are not meant to be recommendations. Abbreviations like "BRDT" would not correspond to common Brazilian practice, which is to use the Portuguese equivalent of "summer time" rather than "daylight time".
As is stated in the tz tables' comments, in 1999 I invented the abbreviations BRT/BRST, AMT/AMST, etc., that are used in the current tz tables for Brazil. As far as I know nobody else has needed, or uses, English-language acronyms for the Brazilian time zone. However, should an alternate tradition arise in practice, of course we'd prefer to use the English-language abbreviations that people are actually using, as opposed to abbreviations that we have invented.
participants (4)
-
Avi Alkalay -
Avi Alkalay -
Paul Eggert -
Ronaldo Vasconcellos