The largest population center in Baja California State south of Ensenada is San Quintín, 190 km south of Ensenada. A new municipality of that name will separate from the large Ensenada municipality on December 1, 2016, and although there are other large localities such as Lazaro Cardenas in that area, San Quintin seems to be the central administrative town. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Quint%C3%ADn,_Baja_California I see conflicting information online about when DST ends there, either November or October. Making contact with locals in that area is likely the best way to find out
On 10/09/2015 10:47 AM, Greg Slayden wrote:
I see conflicting information online about when DST ends there, either November or October. Making contact with locals in that area is likely the best way to find out
Yes, if we can establish that San Quintín uses Mexico's DST rules, we can effectively replace America/Santa_Isabel with America/San_Quintin. Normally we'd prefer Lázaro Cárdenas as it has more people, but it's an ambiguous name whereas San Quintín is not.
+1 for America/San_Quintin. Thanks Greg. Also - and you guys are going to love this - I looked up the coordinates we have for America/Santa_Isabel in zone.tab, which are +3018-11452, and look what I found: https://goo.gl/maps/LQzBc94PuPx We've picked "Sierra Santa Isabel" - a mountain range. :) Also: http://mapcarta.com/20314132 Nowhere near the actual town of Santa Isabel either.
To: gregsla@microsoft.com; tz@iana.org From: eggert@cs.ucla.edu Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:31:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [tz] America/Santa_Isabel
On 10/09/2015 10:47 AM, Greg Slayden wrote:
I see conflicting information online about when DST ends there, either November or October. Making contact with locals in that area is likely the best way to find out
Yes, if we can establish that San Quintín uses Mexico's DST rules, we can effectively replace America/Santa_Isabel with America/San_Quintin. Normally we'd prefer Lázaro Cárdenas as it has more people, but it's an ambiguous name whereas San Quintín is not.
Radio station XEQIN of San Quintín has a web presence: http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeqin.html It's a daytimer, the web page says it broadcasts from 5:00 a.m. until 7:00 p.m. Streaming wasn't working for me today here in Maryland until shortly after 9:00 a.m.; I'm now (~9:15) hearing a Spanish-language announcer who has mentioned the date, meaning it should indeed be a live stream. I haven't yet heard a time announcement, and I'm surprised the streaming started at 9:00 my time rather than 8:00 my time. We'll see what happens in the coming days and weeks--in particular between October 25 and November 1. (If nothing else, we may produce a spike in XEQIN's ratings.) --ado On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Matt Johnson <mj1856@hotmail.com> wrote:
+1 for America/San_Quintin. Thanks Greg.
Also - and you guys are going to love this - I looked up the coordinates we have for America/Santa_Isabel in zone.tab, which are +3018-11452, and look what I found:
https://goo.gl/maps/LQzBc94PuPx
We've picked "Sierra Santa Isabel" - a mountain range. :)
Also: http://mapcarta.com/20314132
Nowhere near the actual town of Santa Isabel either.
To: gregsla@microsoft.com; tz@iana.org From: eggert@cs.ucla.edu Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:31:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [tz] America/Santa_Isabel
On 10/09/2015 10:47 AM, Greg Slayden wrote:
I see conflicting information online about when DST ends there, either November or October. Making contact with locals in that area is likely the best way to find out
Yes, if we can establish that San Quintín uses Mexico's DST rules, we can effectively replace America/Santa_Isabel with America/San_Quintin. Normally we'd prefer Lázaro Cárdenas as it has more people, but it's an ambiguous name whereas San Quintín is not.
I found that there were actually TWO erratas in Diario Oficial. We only have the first one:http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5127480&fecha=06/01/2010 But also there was a second:http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5135357&fecha=13/03/2010 The change is in bold in the second document, and clarifies that the entire municipality of Ensenada follows US rules, not just the city of Ensenada. I'm not sure what this means with regard to San Quintin, but if it's following the letter of the law as currently written then it would currently be following US rules, and later when it officially becomes its own municipality then it would follow Mexican rules (unless they later change this). Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 09:24:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [tz] America/Santa_Isabel From: arthurdavidolson@gmail.com To: mj1856@hotmail.com CC: eggert@cs.ucla.edu; gregsla@microsoft.com; tz@iana.org Radio station XEQIN of San Quintín has a web presence: http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeqin.html It's a daytimer, the web page says it broadcasts from 5:00 a.m. until 7:00 p.m. Streaming wasn't working for me today here in Maryland until shortly after 9:00 a.m.; I'm now (~9:15) hearing a Spanish-language announcer who has mentioned the date, meaning it should indeed be a live stream. I haven't yet heard a time announcement, and I'm surprised the streaming started at 9:00 my time rather than 8:00 my time. We'll see what happens in the coming days and weeks--in particular between October 25 and November 1. (If nothing else, we may produce a spike in XEQIN's ratings.) --ado On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Matt Johnson <mj1856@hotmail.com> wrote: +1 for America/San_Quintin. Thanks Greg. Also - and you guys are going to love this - I looked up the coordinates we have for America/Santa_Isabel in zone.tab, which are +3018-11452, and look what I found: https://goo.gl/maps/LQzBc94PuPx We've picked "Sierra Santa Isabel" - a mountain range. :) Also: http://mapcarta.com/20314132 Nowhere near the actual town of Santa Isabel either.
To: gregsla@microsoft.com; tz@iana.org From: eggert@cs.ucla.edu Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:31:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [tz] America/Santa_Isabel
On 10/09/2015 10:47 AM, Greg Slayden wrote:
I see conflicting information online about when DST ends there, either November or October. Making contact with locals in that area is likely the best way to find out
Yes, if we can establish that San Quintín uses Mexico's DST rules, we can effectively replace America/Santa_Isabel with America/San_Quintin. Normally we'd prefer Lázaro Cárdenas as it has more people, but it's an ambiguous name whereas San Quintín is not.
Listening to XEQIN... http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeqin.html ...from San Quintín, Mexico this evening, I heard the announcement "cinco de la tarde con un minuto" (literally, "five in the afternoon with one minute") when it was 20:01 USEDT; this means San Quintín was on Pacific Daylight Time. More importantly, I later heard an announcer emphatically ("no no no") telling listeners not to set their clocks back until a week from now ("es hasta el primer domingo de noviembre"). I hope to listen tomorrow evening to verify that clocks there have not been set back (and listen again next weekend to verify that they have been). Assuming so, that will leave the question of where (if anywhere) in Baja California Norte clocks are switched using Mexican rules. @dashdashado On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Arthur David Olson < arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> wrote:
Radio station XEQIN of San Quintín has a web presence: http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeqin.html It's a daytimer, the web page says it broadcasts from 5:00 a.m. until 7:00 p.m. Streaming wasn't working for me today here in Maryland until shortly after 9:00 a.m.; I'm now (~9:15) hearing a Spanish-language announcer who has mentioned the date, meaning it should indeed be a live stream. I haven't yet heard a time announcement, and I'm surprised the streaming started at 9:00 my time rather than 8:00 my time.
We'll see what happens in the coming days and weeks--in particular between October 25 and November 1. (If nothing else, we may produce a spike in XEQIN's ratings.)
--ado
On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Matt Johnson <mj1856@hotmail.com> wrote:
+1 for America/San_Quintin. Thanks Greg.
Also - and you guys are going to love this - I looked up the coordinates we have for America/Santa_Isabel in zone.tab, which are +3018-11452, and look what I found:
https://goo.gl/maps/LQzBc94PuPx
We've picked "Sierra Santa Isabel" - a mountain range. :)
Also: http://mapcarta.com/20314132
Nowhere near the actual town of Santa Isabel either.
To: gregsla@microsoft.com; tz@iana.org From: eggert@cs.ucla.edu Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:31:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [tz] America/Santa_Isabel
On 10/09/2015 10:47 AM, Greg Slayden wrote:
I see conflicting information online about when DST ends there,
either
November or October. Making contact with locals in that area is likely the best way to find out
Yes, if we can establish that San Quintín uses Mexico's DST rules, we can effectively replace America/Santa_Isabel with America/San_Quintin. Normally we'd prefer Lázaro Cárdenas as it has more people, but it's an ambiguous name whereas San Quintín is not.
And the word today from XEQIN... http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeqin.html ...in San Quintín, Mexico is "doce de la tarde con veinticinco minutos" (literally, "12 of the afternoon with 25 minutes") at 15:25 USEDT; they're still on Pacific Daylight Time. @dashdashado On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Arthur David Olson < arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> wrote:
Listening to XEQIN... http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeqin.html ...from San Quintín, Mexico this evening, I heard the announcement "cinco de la tarde con un minuto" (literally, "five in the afternoon with one minute") when it was 20:01 USEDT; this means San Quintín was on Pacific Daylight Time.
More importantly, I later heard an announcer emphatically ("no no no") telling listeners not to set their clocks back until a week from now ("es hasta el primer domingo de noviembre").
I hope to listen tomorrow evening to verify that clocks there have not been set back (and listen again next weekend to verify that they have been). Assuming so, that will leave the question of where (if anywhere) in Baja California Norte clocks are switched using Mexican rules.
@dashdashado
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Arthur David Olson < arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> wrote:
Radio station XEQIN of San Quintín has a web presence: http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeqin.html It's a daytimer, the web page says it broadcasts from 5:00 a.m. until 7:00 p.m. Streaming wasn't working for me today here in Maryland until shortly after 9:00 a.m.; I'm now (~9:15) hearing a Spanish-language announcer who has mentioned the date, meaning it should indeed be a live stream. I haven't yet heard a time announcement, and I'm surprised the streaming started at 9:00 my time rather than 8:00 my time.
We'll see what happens in the coming days and weeks--in particular between October 25 and November 1. (If nothing else, we may produce a spike in XEQIN's ratings.)
--ado
On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Matt Johnson <mj1856@hotmail.com> wrote:
+1 for America/San_Quintin. Thanks Greg.
Also - and you guys are going to love this - I looked up the coordinates we have for America/Santa_Isabel in zone.tab, which are +3018-11452, and look what I found:
https://goo.gl/maps/LQzBc94PuPx
We've picked "Sierra Santa Isabel" - a mountain range. :)
Also: http://mapcarta.com/20314132
Nowhere near the actual town of Santa Isabel either.
To: gregsla@microsoft.com; tz@iana.org From: eggert@cs.ucla.edu Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:31:56 -0700 Subject: Re: [tz] America/Santa_Isabel
On 10/09/2015 10:47 AM, Greg Slayden wrote:
I see conflicting information online about when DST ends there,
either
November or October. Making contact with locals in that area is likely the best way to find out
Yes, if we can establish that San Quintín uses Mexico's DST rules, we can effectively replace America/Santa_Isabel with America/San_Quintin. Normally we'd prefer Lázaro Cárdenas as it has more people, but it's an ambiguous name whereas San Quintín is not.
Arthur David Olson wrote:
And the word today from XEQIN... http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeqin.html ...in San Quintín, Mexico is "doce de la tarde con veinticinco minutos" (literally, "12 of the afternoon with 25 minutes") at 15:25 USEDT; they're still on Pacific Daylight Time.
Thanks for checking this. So it appears that the experimental github version is the way to go. Namely, remove America/Santa_Isabel (since it was a false alarm) and leave behind a backwards-compatibility link for it.
So it appears that the experimental github version is the way to go. Namely, remove America/Santa_Isabel (since it was a false alarm) and leave behind a backwards-compatibility link for it.
Baja California Norte is, as of this writing, divided into five municipios (think counties in US terms). If we've got all the updates to the law, the entire municipios of Tijuana, Ensenada, and Mexicali (as distinct from those cities) follow US rules, as do places within 20 km of the Mexico/US border. This weekend's monitoring of XEQIN tends to confirm the supposition that all of the municipio of Ensenada uses US rules. There are parts of the remaining two municipios--Tecate and Playas de Rosarito--that are south of the 20 km zone; they might follow Mexican rules. If they do, they're surrounded on all sides by Mexican areas following US rules (or ocean); this seems unlikely, but we are in the realm of time zones (take Indiana--please). Improvidently, I've failed to find any radio stations with an online presence located in the Tecate or Playas de Rosarito areas of interest. @dashdashado On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
Arthur David Olson wrote:
And the word today from XEQIN... http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeqin.html ...in San Quintín, Mexico is "doce de la tarde con veinticinco minutos" (literally, "12 of the afternoon with 25 minutes") at 15:25 USEDT; they're still on Pacific Daylight Time.
Thanks for checking this. So it appears that the experimental github version is the way to go. Namely, remove America/Santa_Isabel (since it was a false alarm) and leave behind a backwards-compatibility link for it.
Thanks for the dedication to listen for this! I'm not sure that we should jump to remove America/Santa_Isabel just yet, due to dependencies that might be impacted. Specifically, there is a corresponding entry in Windows, "Pacific Standard Time (Mexico) |(UTC-08:00) Baja California" which is mapped in CLDR to America/Santa_Isabel. I've got a parallel discussion going within Microsoft about this zone, and will share the findings of our research. Changing it to link with America/Tijuana will mean that there will be yet another "unmappable" zone. Also, there's a chance that San Quintin could indeed start using Mexican DST rules in 2017, since it is becoming its own municipality in December 2016. By the wording of the current regulation, wouldn't they have to? Of course they could always publish a new regulation by then. Thanks,Matt Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:42:14 -0400 From: arthurdavidolson@gmail.com CC: tz@iana.org Subject: Re: [tz] America/Santa_Isabel
So it appears that the experimental github version is the way to go. Namely, remove America/Santa_Isabel (since it was a false alarm) and leave behind a backwards-compatibility link for it.
Baja California Norte is, as of this writing, divided into five municipios (think counties in US terms). If we've got all the updates to the law, the entire municipios of Tijuana, Ensenada, and Mexicali (as distinct from those cities) follow US rules, as do places within 20 km of the Mexico/US border. This weekend's monitoring of XEQIN tends to confirm the supposition that all of the municipio of Ensenada uses US rules. There are parts of the remaining two municipios--Tecate and Playas de Rosarito--that are south of the 20 km zone; they might follow Mexican rules. If they do, they're surrounded on all sides by Mexican areas following US rules (or ocean); this seems unlikely, but we are in the realm of time zones (take Indiana--please). Improvidently, I've failed to find any radio stations with an online presence located in the Tecate or Playas de Rosarito areas of interest. @dashdashado On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote: Arthur David Olson wrote: And the word today from XEQIN... http://ecos.cdi.gob.mx/xeqin.html ...in San Quintín, Mexico is "doce de la tarde con veinticinco minutos" (literally, "12 of the afternoon with 25 minutes") at 15:25 USEDT; they're still on Pacific Daylight Time. Thanks for checking this. So it appears that the experimental github version is the way to go. Namely, remove America/Santa_Isabel (since it was a false alarm) and leave behind a backwards-compatibility link for it.
<<On Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:42:14 -0400, Arthur David Olson <arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> said:
Improvidently, I've failed to find any radio stations with an online presence located in the Tecate or Playas de Rosarito areas of interest.
Tecate and Rosarito Beach are (effectively) part of the Tijuana/San Diego media market. The stations that are licensed there primarily serve Tijuana and are likely to follow the US rules even if that's not what the official rule is for their location. -GAWollman
Matt Johnson wrote:
there is a corresponding entry in Windows, "Pacific Standard Time (Mexico) |(UTC-08:00) Baja California"
I'm afraid this will have to be adjusted on the Microsoft end. There needs to be a procedure for removing time zones that turn out to be mistakes. America/Santa_Isabel is a mistake, and I suppose we can view this as an opportunity for ironing out any procedural glitches while removing it. We do have a backward compatibility link on the tzdata side; perhaps that will help for the Microsoft side.
Also, there's a chance that San Quintin could indeed start using Mexican DST rules in 2017,
We can create a zone America/San_Quintin if that happens.
participants (5)
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Arthur David Olson -
Garrett Wollman -
Greg Slayden -
Matt Johnson -
Paul Eggert