That is excellent to hear, Tim. Yes, I had known that some time services has interpreted our announcement as the ‘done and dusted’ finalization. At that point in March it was a policy commitment, and the news on that nuance was not totally clear. We just do have some legal process to finish off, which we are on track to do, so I don’t think we will end up in a tough spot. I will let you know when we make our change legally final so we can all rest assured that November 2 will still see us on UTC -7. All the best. Andrew G. Smith Intergovernmental Relations Executive Council Office Government of Yukon C: 867-335-6008 From: Tim Parenti <tim@timtimeonline.com> Sent: July 3, 2020 11:24 AM To: Andrew.Smith <Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca> Cc: Time Zone Mailing List <tz@iana.org> Subject: Re: [tz] [IANA #1173666] Time zone change - Yukon Canada Andrew, We made this change in our codebase on 5 March 2020, based on 4 March CBC reporting and a government press release stating that Yukon would be remaining permanently on UTC-7 following its spring-forward transition on 8 March. As such, both America/Dawson and America/Whitehorse have been updated accordingly: https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/e6c1f0e7daa0b6c5131b2976c6be9190845d2b49 (Canada/Yukon is a long-deprecated backwards-compatibility link to America/Whitehorse, so need not be updated separately.) This change is already included in our latest release, 2020a, which was published on 23 April 2020. Although it can sometimes take several weeks or months after publication for our releases to make it to downstream distributions and software updates for various computer and mobile platforms, many recent devices that are receiving regular updates should already have this change, and many more are likely to receive it before Yukon time diverges from our old predictions in November. One (hopefully small) point: Our understanding from the press release at https://yukon.ca/en/news/yukon-end-seasonal-time-change was that this decision was already finalized. If it is not, this is not a major issue, but do note that tz's current predictions published in 2020a do not have Yukon falling back on 1 November 2020… so if for some reason the regulatory processes should be delayed, please contact us as soon as that's apparent. Hope this helps! -- Tim Parenti On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 13:57, <Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca<mailto:Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca>> wrote: Good day. I work for the Government of Yukon in Canada. We are in the process of revising our definition of time to be permanently on UTC -7, no longer observing a twice-annual time change. I was on the hunt for authoritative standards related to time, and saw the IANA come up as caretaker of the time zone database, which appears to be relied on for software and systems. I am contacting you to see if there is any process beyond notification to making this adjustment in your TZ database, and perhaps to know if there are other agencies that should be aware of what Yukon is planning. From what I see now, TZ database names "America/Dawson", "America/Whitehorse" and "Canada/Yukon" would be affected by this change. Our regulation is not yet complete, so it is not law at this time and I am not looking for immediate change. We are aiming for finalization here by November 1, 2020. Hope to hear from you soon. Andrew Andrew G. Smith Intergovernmental Relations Executive Council Office Government of Yukon C: 867-335-6008 -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Baber via RT <iana-questions@iana.org<mailto:iana-questions@iana.org>> Sent: July 2, 2020 3:48 PM To: Andrew.Smith <Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca<mailto:Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca>> Subject: [IANA #1173666] Time zone change - Yukon Canada Dear Andrew, Thank you for contacting us. IANA hosts the Time Zone Database, but the database is managed by the Time Zone Coordinator in conjunction with a mailing list. You can find find mailing list information here: https://www.iana.org/time-zones This document should have or point to much of the information you're looking for: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html As is noted at the link above, "If your government plans to change its time zone boundaries or daylight saving rules, inform tz@iana.org<mailto:tz@iana.org> well in advance, as this will coordinate updates to many cell phones, computers, and other devices around the world. With less than a year's notice there is a good chance that some computer-based clocks will operate incorrectly after the change, due to delays in propagating updates to software and data. The shorter the notice, the more likely clock problems will arise; see https://imsva91-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=https%3a%2... for examples." Best regards, Amanda Baber Lead IANA Services Specialist On Thu Jul 02 22:20:44 2020, Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca<mailto:Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca> wrote:

Good day.

I work for the Government of Yukon in Canada. We are in the process of revising our definition of time to be permanently on UTC -7, no longer observing a twice-annual time change. I was on the hunt for authoritative standards related to time, and saw the IANA come up as caretaker of the time zone database, which appears to be relied on for software and systems. I started with ISO 8601, but couldn't see the full text to know if there are time zone standards there. I am contacting you to see your TZ database is a widely adopted and authoritative as it seems, to see if there is any process to making this adjustment in your TZ database, and perhaps to know if there are other agencies that should be aware of what Yukon is planning. From what I see now, TZ database names "America/Dawson", "America/Whitehorse" and "Canada/Yukon" would be affected by this change.

Our regulation is not yet complete, so it is not law at this time and I am not looking for immediate change. We are aiming for finalization here by November 1, 2020. Hope to hear from you soon.

Andrew

[cid:image003.png@01D65084.40C16690]

Andrew G. Smith Intergovernmental Relations Executive Council Office C 867-335-6008 | Yukon.ca

We should also ask all government folks to provide web links to officially published acts, decrees, laws, orders, regulations, or statutes available online at a government web site, with the document providing full details including dates, times, and the zones in effect when any changes or transitions in time are to be made, plus any preferences as to normal English names or abbreviations, as well as the legally effective date (time, zone) of publication. These official document links avoid any possible later issues, should anyone dispute and solicit changes to the time keeping practice in effect at any location within that legal jurisdiction, as we are aware of both official and de facto variances in practices near many time zone boundaries. On 2020-07-03 12:40, Tim Parenti wrote:

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, then. Since tz is used directly by many operating systems — Apple (including iOS), Google (including Android), and most Linux distributions — most day-to-day users should be good to go when the change is finalized, if they aren't already.  For what it's worth, it seems Microsoft have also picked up on the change https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/daylight-saving-time-time-zone/time-z..., though from the date of their announcement, it's possible they got the news from us. Other software which does not rely on the operating system's timezone definitions may require their own updates; those concerns are downstream from this project.

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 14:31, Andrew Smith wrote: That is excellent to hear, Tim. Yes, I had known that some time services has interpreted our announcement as the ‘done and dusted’ finalization. At that point in March it was a policy commitment, and the news on that nuance was not totally clear. We just do have some legal process to finish off, which we are on track to do, so I don’t think we will end up in a tough spot. I will let you know when we make our change legally final so we can all rest assured that November 2 will still see us on UTC -7.

On July 3, 2020 11:24 AM, Tim Parenti wrote: We made this change in our codebase on 5 March 2020, based on 4 March CBC reporting and a government press release stating that Yukon would be remaining permanently on UTC-7 following its spring-forward transition on 8 March. As such, both America/Dawson and America/Whitehorse have been updated accordingly: https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/e6c1f0e7daa0b6c5131b2976c6be9190845d2b49 (Canada/Yukon is a long-deprecated backwards-compatibility link to America/Whitehorse, so need not be updated separately.) This change is already included in our latest release, 2020a, which was published on 23 April 2020. Although it can sometimes take several weeks or months after publication for our releases to make it to downstream distributions and software updates for various computer and mobile platforms, many recent devices that are receiving regular updates should already have this change, and many more are likely to receive it before Yukon time diverges from our old predictions in November. One (hopefully small) point: Our understanding from the press release at https://yukon.ca/en/news/yukon-end-seasonal-time-change was that this decision was already finalized. If it is not, this is not a major issue, but do note that tz's current predictions published in 2020a do not have Yukon falling back on 1 November 2020… so if for some reason the regulatory processes should be delayed, please contact us as soon as that's apparent. On July 2, 2020 3:48 PM, Amanda Baber via RT wrote: Thank you for contacting us. IANA hosts the Time Zone Database, but the database is managed by the Time Zone Coordinator in conjunction with a mailing list. You can find find mailing list information here: https://www.iana.org/time-zones This document should have or point to much of the information you're looking for: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html As is noted at the link above, "If your government plans to change its time zone boundaries or daylight saving rules, inform tz@iana.org well in advance, as this will coordinate updates to many cell phones, computers, and other devices around the world. With less than a year's notice there is a good chance that some computer-based clocks will operate incorrectly after the change, due to delays in propagating updates to software and data. The shorter the notice, the more likely clock problems will arise; see https://codeofmatt.com/on-the-timing-of-time-zone-changes for examples."

On Thu Jul 02 22:20:44 2020, Andrew Smith wrote:

...

I work for the Government of Yukon in Canada. We are in the process of revising our definition of time to be permanently on UTC -7, no longer observing a twice-annual time change. I was on the hunt for authoritative standards related to time, and saw the IANA come up as caretaker of the time zone database, which appears to be relied on for software and systems. I started with ISO 8601, but couldn't see the full text to know if there are time zone standards there. I am contacting you to see your TZ database is a widely adopted and authoritative as it seems, to see if there is any process to making this adjustment in your TZ database, and perhaps to know if there are other agencies that should be aware of what Yukon is planning. From what I see now, TZ database names "America/Dawson", "America/Whitehorse" and "Canada/Yukon" would be affected by this change.

Our regulation is not yet complete, so it is not law at this time and I am not looking for immediate change. We are aiming for finalization here by November 1, 2020.

-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised. [Data in IEC units and prefixes, physical quantities in SI.]

If they don't establish a new standard time, then all legal documents referring to time are likely to be invalid, and/or require some awkward wording in the legislation, and possibly also in new legal documents. Politicians and bureaucrats often misunderstand these requirements or try to promote an agenda and tend to miss this point, so we are better, as Paul has assumed for Yukon, to establish the standard time as per the UTC offset, and use the zone name and abbreviation appropriate for that UTC offset, with the existing zone ids/file names. The federal government documents and treats the time zones in effect in summer, as if all zones switched to their relative summer times zones e.g. Yukon will follow MST and PDT, to keep the terminology consistent, regardless of local practice in any province or territory, as it is irrelevant to the federal government, which is, of course, not subject to laws of subdivisions. It might be interesting to document (as in commentary for each country with multiple time zones) whether other federal governments establish their own practices and standards for dealing with time zones in subdivisions, or follow the practices and standards of their subdivisions. On 2020-07-03 15:29, Arthur David Olson wrote:

One other piece of information to solicit from governments who switch to permanent DST: is the new scheme permanent daylight time, or does it establish a new standard time?

(This can be of importance in dealing with laws or contracts written in terms of "standard time.")

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:22 PM Brian Inglis wrote: We should also ask all government folks to provide web links to officially published acts, decrees, laws, orders, regulations, or statutes available online at a government web site, with the document providing full details including dates, times, and the zones in effect when any changes or transitions in time are to be made, plus any preferences as to normal English names or abbreviations, as well as the legally effective date (time, zone) of publication.> These official document links avoid any possible later issues, should anyone dispute and solicit changes to the time keeping practice in effect at any location within that legal jurisdiction, as we are aware of both official and de facto variances in practices near many time zone boundaries.

On 2020-07-03 12:40, Tim Parenti wrote:

...

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, then. Since tz is used directly by many operating systems - Apple (including iOS), Google (including Android), and most Linux distributions - most day-to-day users should be good to go when the change is finalized, if they aren't already. For what it's worth, it seems Microsoft have also picked up on the change https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/daylight-saving-time-time-zone/time-z..., though from the date of their announcement, it's possible they got the news from us. Other software which does not rely on the operating system's timezone definitions may require their own updates; those concerns are downstream from this project.

...

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 14:31, Andrew Smith wrote: That is excellent to hear, Tim. Yes, I had known that some time services has interpreted our announcement as the ‘done and dusted’ finalization. At that point in March it was a policy commitment, and the news on that nuance was not totally clear. We just do have some legal process to finish off, which we are on track to do, so I don’t think we will end up in a tough spot. I will let you know when we make our change legally final so we can all rest assured that November 2 will still see us on UTC -7.

...

On July 3, 2020 11:24 AM, Tim Parenti wrote: We made this change in our codebase on 5 March 2020, based on 4 March CBC reporting and a government press release stating that Yukon would be remaining permanently on UTC-7 following its spring-forward transition on 8 March. As such, both America/Dawson and America/Whitehorse have been updated accordingly: https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/e6c1f0e7daa0b6c5131b2976c6be9190845d2b49 (Canada/Yukon is a long-deprecated backwards-compatibility link to America/Whitehorse, so need not be updated separately.) This change is already included in our latest release, 2020a, which was published on 23 April 2020. Although it can sometimes take several weeks or months after publication for our releases to make it to downstream distributions and software updates for various computer and mobile platforms, many recent devices that are receiving regular updates should already have this change, and many more are likely to receive it before Yukon time diverges from our old predictions in November. One (hopefully small) point: Our understanding from the press release at https://yukon.ca/en/news/yukon-end-seasonal-time-change was that this decision was already finalized. If it is not, this is not a major issue, but do note that tz's current predictions published in 2020a do not have Yukon falling back on 1 November 2020… so if for some reason the regulatory processes should be delayed, please contact us as soon as that's apparent.

...

On July 2, 2020 3:48 PM, Amanda Baber via RT wrote: Thank you for contacting us. IANA hosts the Time Zone Database, but the database is managed by the Time Zone Coordinator in conjunction with a mailing list. You can find find mailing list information here: https://www.iana.org/time-zones This document should have or point to much of the information you're looking for: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html As is noted at the link above, "If your government plans to change its time zone boundaries or daylight saving rules, inform tz@iana.org <mailto:tz@iana.org> well in advance, as this will coordinate updates to many cell phones, computers, and other devices around the world. With less than a year's notice there is a good chance that some computer-based clocks will operate incorrectly after the change, due to delays in propagating updates to software and data. The shorter the notice, the more likely clock problems will arise; see https://codeofmatt.com/on-the-timing-of-time-zone-changes for examples."

...

On Thu Jul 02 22:20:44 2020, Andrew Smith wrote:

...

I work for the Government of Yukon in Canada. We are in the process of revising our definition of time to be permanently on UTC -7, no longer observing a twice-annual time change. I was on the hunt for authoritative standards related to time, and saw the IANA come up as caretaker of the time zone database, which appears to be relied on for software and systems. I started with ISO 8601, but couldn't see the full text to know if there are time zone standards there. I am contacting you to see your TZ database is a widely adopted and authoritative as it seems, to see if there is any process to making this adjustment in your TZ database, and perhaps to know if there are other agencies that should be aware of what Yukon is planning. From what I see now, TZ database names "America/Dawson", "America/Whitehorse" and "Canada/Yukon" would be affected by this change. Our regulation is not yet complete, so it is not law at this time and I am not looking for immediate change. We are aiming for finalization here by November 1, 2020.

-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised. [Data in IEC units and prefixes, physical quantities in SI.]

On 7/6/20 11:50 AM, Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca wrote:

I don’t know how many people are on this TZ mailing list, hopefully the information coming from Yukon isn’t just noise in your inboxes.

It's definitely signal, not noise! We appreciate heads-ups like this. To answer your other question, the mailing list currently has 885 members. You can browse the list's archive at <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/>, where you can see recent email about timekeeping in Yukon, Vietnam, Sudan, Hungary and Mars.

Hi Andrew, British Columbia (not Yukon) has the zone name: America/Vancouver You might find it easier to browse the unofficial copy of the tzdb that Paul keeps on GitHub at https://github.com/eggert/tz The relevant parts are here (Zone America/Vancouver): https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/2020a/northamerica#L2136 and here (Rule Canada): https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/2020a/northamerica#L1384-L1385 As you can see, no change has yet been made for British Columbia. You might also appreciate this article, which is useful to understand how to interpret the source files: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-how-to.html Aside - Thanks for keep in touch, especially regarding Yukon (which I assume the upcoming change is still going forward). Earlier, Tim had eluded to Microsoft picking up the change from here - which is indeed the case. I work at Microsoft and regularly monitor discussion and changes here and forward to the responsible parties internally. Occasionally it goes the other direction too, but lately this list is better informed than we are! 🙂 Cheers! -Matt ________________________________ From: tz <tz-bounces@iana.org> on behalf of Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca <Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:41 PM To: eggert@cs.ucla.edu <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> Cc: tz@iana.org <tz@iana.org> Subject: Re: [tz] [IANA #1173666] Time zone change - Yukon Canada Hi all, can I get confirmation that the TZ database has not made a change to British Columbia's time - that they are still scheduled to go to PST in the fall? (Excluding the eastern parts that are on MST). They have created and passed their legislation but have not chosen to enact it yet, and I heard from their officials last week they will be delaying to wait for the pacific US. Also, is there a way for me to simply view the database or a list of current zones? I'm not familiar or getting any luck with the tar files. Andrew G. Smith Intergovernmental Relations Executive Council Office Government of Yukon C: 867-335-6008 -----Original Message----- From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> Sent: July 7, 2020 7:25 PM To: Andrew.Smith <Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca> Cc: Time zone mailing list <tz@iana.org> Subject: Re: [tz] [IANA #1173666] Time zone change - Yukon Canada On 7/6/20 11:50 AM, Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca wrote:

I don’t know how many people are on this TZ mailing list, hopefully the information coming from Yukon isn’t just noise in your inboxes.

It's definitely signal, not noise! We appreciate heads-ups like this. To answer your other question, the mailing list currently has 885 members. You can browse the list's archive at <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/>, where you can see recent email about timekeeping in Yukon, Vietnam, Sudan, Hungary and Mars.

Good afternoon time zone mailing list. Yukon has completed its regulatory change to be on UTC -7 year-round. As promised back in July, here is the link to that regulation: http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/regs/oic2020_125.pdf What we have done is re-defined Yukon Standard Time, as we are authorized to do under section 33 of our Interpretation Act: http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/acts/interpretation_c.pdf I am seeing many devices/operating systems have already updated over the last few months. My thanks to the group in helping navigate this change. I will remain the contact on this file here in Yukon, if anything else comes up. Andrew G. Smith Intergovernmental Relations Executive Council Office Government of Yukon C: 867-335-6008 From: Andrew.Smith Sent: July 6, 2020 11:51 AM To: 'Arthur David Olson' <arthurdavidolson@gmail.com>; Time zone mailing list <tz@iana.org> Subject: RE: [tz] [IANA #1173666] Time zone change - Yukon Canada As far as Yukon is concerned, I will send you all a link to the regulation, once it is law. Along with that, I will describe what we did in a legal sense, where those authorities come from, and how it is described. I am confident with what I’ve submitted for approval to our government, but it is inappropriate for me to describe it publicly before Cabinet approves our regulation. Will be in touch. Thanks for keeping me in on the conversation. I don’t know how many people are on this TZ mailing list, hopefully the information coming from Yukon isn’t just noise in your inboxes. Andrew G. Smith Intergovernmental Relations Executive Council Office Government of Yukon C: 867-335-6008 From: Arthur David Olson Sent: July 3, 2020 2:29 PM To: Time zone mailing list Cc: Andrew.Smith Subject: Re: [tz] [IANA #1173666] Time zone change - Yukon Canada One other piece of information to solicit from governments who switch to permanent DST: is the new scheme permanent daylight time, or does it establish a new standard time? (This can be of importance in dealing with laws or contracts written in terms of "standard time.") @dashdashado On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:22 PM Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@systematicsw.ab.ca<mailto:Brian.Inglis@systematicsw.ab.ca>> wrote: We should also ask all government folks to provide web links to officially published acts, decrees, laws, orders, regulations, or statutes available online at a government web site, with the document providing full details including dates, times, and the zones in effect when any changes or transitions in time are to be made, plus any preferences as to normal English names or abbreviations, as well as the legally effective date (time, zone) of publication. These official document links avoid any possible later issues, should anyone dispute and solicit changes to the time keeping practice in effect at any location within that legal jurisdiction, as we are aware of both official and de facto variances in practices near many time zone boundaries. On 2020-07-03 12:40, Tim Parenti wrote:

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, then. Since tz is used directly by many operating systems — Apple (including iOS), Google (including Android), and most Linux distributions — most day-to-day users should be good to go when the change is finalized, if they aren't already. For what it's worth, it seems Microsoft have also picked up on the change https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/daylight-saving-time-time-zone/time-z..., though from the date of their announcement, it's possible they got the news from us. Other software which does not rely on the operating system's timezone definitions may require their own updates; those concerns are downstream from this project.

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 14:31, Andrew Smith wrote: That is excellent to hear, Tim. Yes, I had known that some time services has interpreted our announcement as the ‘done and dusted’ finalization. At that point in March it was a policy commitment, and the news on that nuance was not totally clear. We just do have some legal process to finish off, which we are on track to do, so I don’t think we will end up in a tough spot. I will let you know when we make our change legally final so we can all rest assured that November 2 will still see us on UTC -7.

On July 3, 2020 11:24 AM, Tim Parenti wrote: We made this change in our codebase on 5 March 2020, based on 4 March CBC reporting and a government press release stating that Yukon would be remaining permanently on UTC-7 following its spring-forward transition on 8 March. As such, both America/Dawson and America/Whitehorse have been updated accordingly: https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/e6c1f0e7daa0b6c5131b2976c6be9190845d2b49 (Canada/Yukon is a long-deprecated backwards-compatibility link to America/Whitehorse, so need not be updated separately.) This change is already included in our latest release, 2020a, which was published on 23 April 2020. Although it can sometimes take several weeks or months after publication for our releases to make it to downstream distributions and software updates for various computer and mobile platforms, many recent devices that are receiving regular updates should already have this change, and many more are likely to receive it before Yukon time diverges from our old predictions in November. One (hopefully small) point: Our understanding from the press release at https://yukon.ca/en/news/yukon-end-seasonal-time-change was that this decision was already finalized. If it is not, this is not a major issue, but do note that tz's current predictions published in 2020a do not have Yukon falling back on 1 November 2020… so if for some reason the regulatory processes should be delayed, please contact us as soon as that's apparent. On July 2, 2020 3:48 PM, Amanda Baber via RT wrote: Thank you for contacting us. IANA hosts the Time Zone Database, but the database is managed by the Time Zone Coordinator in conjunction with a mailing list. You can find find mailing list information here: https://www.iana.org/time-zones This document should have or point to much of the information you're looking for: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html As is noted at the link above, "If your government plans to change its time zone boundaries or daylight saving rules, inform tz@iana.org<mailto:tz@iana.org> well in advance, as this will coordinate updates to many cell phones, computers, and other devices around the world. With less than a year's notice there is a good chance that some computer-based clocks will operate incorrectly after the change, due to delays in propagating updates to software and data. The shorter the notice, the more likely clock problems will arise; see https://codeofmatt.com/on-the-timing-of-time-zone-changes for examples."

On Thu Jul 02 22:20:44 2020, Andrew Smith wrote:

...

I work for the Government of Yukon in Canada. We are in the process of revising our definition of time to be permanently on UTC -7, no longer observing a twice-annual time change. I was on the hunt for authoritative standards related to time, and saw the IANA come up as caretaker of the time zone database, which appears to be relied on for software and systems. I started with ISO 8601, but couldn't see the full text to know if there are time zone standards there. I am contacting you to see your TZ database is a widely adopted and authoritative as it seems, to see if there is any process to making this adjustment in your TZ database, and perhaps to know if there are other agencies that should be aware of what Yukon is planning. From what I see now, TZ database names "America/Dawson", "America/Whitehorse" and "Canada/Yukon" would be affected by this change.

Our regulation is not yet complete, so it is not law at this time and I am not looking for immediate change. We are aiming for finalization here by November 1, 2020.

-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised. [Data in IEC units and prefixes, physical quantities in SI.]

On 2020-09-24 16:03:35 (-0700), Paul Eggert wrote:

+ Briefly: + Revised predictions for Morocco's changes starting in 20203.

This feels like a typo. Or a lot of time passed very quickly! :) Philip -- Philip Paeps Senior Reality Engineer Alternative Enterprises

Following the discussions in March 2020, the database was modified to place Yukon (America/Whitehorse and America/Dawson) in the MST(UTC-7) time zone as of Nov 1, 2020. It seems that the new regulation re-defines Yukon Standard Time (which used to be UTC-9 and is now UTC-7), as permitted by Yukon legislation (note that this new definition does seem at odds with section 35 of the Canada's federal Interpretation Act https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/i-21/page-4.html, although perhaps the latter will now be amended). Is it a concern that the common usage will be Yukon Standard Time (presumably abbreviated as YST) whereas the database is using MST? Erik Blake On 2020-09-24 14:11, Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca wrote:

Good afternoon time zone mailing list.

 

Yukon has completed its regulatory change to be on UTC -7 year-round.

As promised back in July, here is the link to that regulation: http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/regs/oic2020_125.pdf <http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/regs/oic2020_125.pdf>

What we have done is re-defined Yukon Standard Time, as we are authorized to do under section 33 of our Interpretation Act: http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/acts/interpretation_c.pdf <http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/acts/interpretation_c.pdf>

 

I am seeing many devices/operating systems have already updated over the last few months.

 

My thanks to the group in helping navigate this change. I will remain the contact on this file here in Yukon, if anything else comes up.

 

 

*Andrew G. Smith*

Intergovernmental Relations

Executive Council Office

Government of Yukon

C: 867-335-6008

 

To me it does not make sense to call it Yukon Standard Time when the UTC offset is exactly the same as Mountain Standard time (UTC -7).

The hope is that the database reflects what law calls for and what actually happens on the ground. Alas, in some cases these do not make sense. @dashdashado On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 9:08 PM Chris Walton <Chris.Walton@telus.com> wrote:

To me it does not make sense to call it Yukon Standard Time when the UTC offset is exactly the same as Mountain Standard time (UTC -7).

I uploaded some new maps to Wikimedia Commons. I hope they help to visualize the situation. I did not apply a YST label to the maps.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canada_timezone_map_-_en.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Canada_timezone_map_-_fr.svg

-chris

...

-----Original Message----- From: tz <tz-bounces@iana.org> On Behalf Of Erik Sent: September 24, 2020 7:26 PM To: tz@iana.org Subject: Re: [tz] [IANA #1173666] Time zone change - Yukon Canada

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Following the discussions in March 2020, the database was modified to place Yukon (America/Whitehorse and America/Dawson) in the MST(UTC-7) time zone as of Nov 1, 2020.

It seems that the new regulation re-defines Yukon Standard Time (which used to be UTC-9 and is now UTC-7), as permitted by Yukon legislation (note that this new definition does seem at odds with section 35 of the Canada's federal Interpretation Act https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/i-21/page- 4.html, although perhaps the latter will now be amended).

Is it a concern that the common usage will be Yukon Standard Time (presumably abbreviated as YST) whereas the database is using MST?

Erik Blake

On 2020-09-24 14:11, Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca wrote:

...

Good afternoon time zone mailing list.

Yukon has completed its regulatory change to be on UTC -7 year-round.

As promised back in July, here is the link to that regulation: http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/regs/oic2020_125.pdf <http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/regs/oic2020_125.pdf>

What we have done is re-defined Yukon Standard Time, as we are authorized to do under section 33 of our Interpretation Act: http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/acts/interpretation_c.pdf <http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/acts/interpretation_c.pdf>

I am seeing many devices/operating systems have already updated over the last few months.

My thanks to the group in helping navigate this change. I will remain the contact on this file here in Yukon, if anything else comes up.

*Andrew G. Smith*

Intergovernmental Relations

Executive Council Office

Government of Yukon

C: 867-335-6008

Perhaps the Yukon Government representative could also help us fill a couple of holes in Yukon legislative time zone history and comments in: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2015-April/022200.html and http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/attachments/20150417/4ba8d35e/0001-Better-d... ✱ CO 1966-20 establishing Yukon (East) Standard Time (like PST) and Yukon (West) Standard Time (like YST) is not available on the Yukon, CanLii, or other sites, although it was revoked by CO 1967-59; from: Standard Time and Time Zones in Canada; Thomson, Malcolm M.; JRASC, Vol. 64, pp.129-162; June 1970; SAO/NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS) http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1970JRASC..64..129T p.156: "Yukon Territory Commissioner's Order 1967-59 Interpretation Ordinance The Commissioner of the Yukon Territory, pursuant to the Interpretation Ordinance, is pleased to and doth hereby order as follows: 1. Commissioner's Order 1966-20 dated at Whitehorse in the Yukon Territory on 27th January, 1966, is hereby revoked." ✱ OIC 1980/02 establishing Yukon DST is not available on the Yukon, CanLii, or other sites, although it was revoked by OIC 1987/56; from: Yukon Daylight Saving Time, YOIC 1987/56 http://www.canlii.org/en/yk/laws/regu/yoic-1987-56/latest/yoic-1987-56.html "O.I.C. 1987/056 INTERPRETATION ACT INTERPRETATION ACT Pursuant to section 36 of the Interpretation Act, the Commissioner in Executive Council orders as follows: 1. In every year between (a) two o'clock in the morning in the first Sunday in April, and (b) two o'clock in the morning in the last Sunday in October, Standard Time shall be reckoned as seven hours behind Greenwich Time and called Yukon Daylight Saving Time. 2. Order-In-Council 1980/02 is hereby revoked." -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised. [Data in binary units and prefixes, physical quantities in SI.]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:42 PM <Andrew.Smith@gov.yk.ca> wrote:

Hi again everyone.

I’m reaching out for advice, possibly from a jurisdiction who also eliminated time changes in the last few years.

I am seeing an issue with calendars and computer-scheduled events.

· Calendar items in Outlook, Google Calendars, Apple Calendar, etc that were entered before a system was assigned to the new Yukon time zone will show as occurring an hour later after Nov. 1, 2020.

· Calendar items that were created under the old time zone still ‘think’ they are on Vancouver time.

· When Vancouver time switches to standard time on Nov. 1, those items think they are on UTC -8.

· When those old items are displayed in a calendar that is now recognizing the new Yukon time, they show as an hour later than they should be occurring because they are translating the time in UTC -8 to UTC -7, hence displaying as one hour later.

As another example, I have a chicken farmer who is concerned his automated light systems will be off by an hour on Nov. 1. Some people also mentioned traffic light cycles, certainly any appointment booking systems, and my biggest worry is medical devices. The problem will dilute over time as all systems recognize the correct time, but there will be a hangover period by the looks of it.

Users should ensure that their systems are set to assume Yukon time if appropriate **NOW**. Embedded devices may not have updates, this is one reason why it is desirable for lengthy delays between passing appropriate enabling legislation and the timezone change taking effect. I'm quite certain the chickens will respond to the sun as normal, human wishes about appropriate timezones be damned. This at least was my experience when I was next door to a homeowner enamored of keeping a chicken.

If there is any experience on how to correct this in any software, I am eager to hear it. Thanks.

This is not generally possible. How is the calendar software supposed to know that events in Vancouver time are now magically on Yukon time? With more lead time (say several years) calendar events wouldn't be as much of a problem as people would hopefully use the Yukon time zone when creating the events.

Andrew G. Smith

Intergovernmental Relations

Executive Council Office

Government of Yukon

T: 867-667-5875

From: Andrew.Smith Sent: September 24, 2020 2:12 PM To: 'Time zone mailing list' <tz@iana.org> Cc: 'Arthur David Olson' <arthurdavidolson@gmail.com> Subject: RE: [tz] [IANA #1173666] Time zone change - Yukon Canada

Good afternoon time zone mailing list.

Yukon has completed its regulatory change to be on UTC -7 year-round.

As promised back in July, here is the link to that regulation: http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/regs/oic2020_125.pdf

What we have done is re-defined Yukon Standard Time, as we are authorized to do under section 33 of our Interpretation Act: http://www.gov.yk.ca/legislation/acts/interpretation_c.pdf

I am seeing many devices/operating systems have already updated over the last few months.

My thanks to the group in helping navigate this change. I will remain the contact on this file here in Yukon, if anything else comes up.

Andrew G. Smith

Intergovernmental Relations

Executive Council Office

Government of Yukon

C: 867-335-6008

From: Andrew.Smith Sent: July 6, 2020 11:51 AM To: 'Arthur David Olson' <arthurdavidolson@gmail.com>; Time zone mailing list <tz@iana.org> Subject: RE: [tz] [IANA #1173666] Time zone change - Yukon Canada

As far as Yukon is concerned, I will send you all a link to the regulation, once it is law. Along with that, I will describe what we did in a legal sense, where those authorities come from, and how it is described. I am confident with what I’ve submitted for approval to our government, but it is inappropriate for me to describe it publicly before Cabinet approves our regulation.

Will be in touch. Thanks for keeping me in on the conversation. I don’t know how many people are on this TZ mailing list, hopefully the information coming from Yukon isn’t just noise in your inboxes.

Andrew G. Smith

Intergovernmental Relations

Executive Council Office

Government of Yukon

C: 867-335-6008

From: Arthur David Olson Sent: July 3, 2020 2:29 PM To: Time zone mailing list Cc: Andrew.Smith Subject: Re: [tz] [IANA #1173666] Time zone change - Yukon Canada

One other piece of information to solicit from governments who switch to permanent DST: is the new scheme permanent daylight time, or does it establish a new standard time?

(This can be of importance in dealing with laws or contracts written in terms of "standard time.")

@dashdashado

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:22 PM Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@systematicsw.ab.ca> wrote:

We should also ask all government folks to provide web links to officially published acts, decrees, laws, orders, regulations, or statutes available online at a government web site, with the document providing full details including dates, times, and the zones in effect when any changes or transitions in time are to be made, plus any preferences as to normal English names or abbreviations, as well as the legally effective date (time, zone) of publication. These official document links avoid any possible later issues, should anyone dispute and solicit changes to the time keeping practice in effect at any location within that legal jurisdiction, as we are aware of both official and de facto variances in practices near many time zone boundaries.

On 2020-07-03 12:40, Tim Parenti wrote:

...

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, then. Since tz is used directly by many operating systems — Apple (including iOS), Google (including Android), and most Linux distributions — most day-to-day users should be good to go when the change is finalized, if they aren't already. For what it's worth, it seems Microsoft have also picked up on the change https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/daylight-saving-time-time-zone/time-z..., though from the date of their announcement, it's possible they got the news from us. Other software which does not rely on the operating system's timezone definitions may require their own updates; those concerns are downstream from this project.

...

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 14:31, Andrew Smith wrote: That is excellent to hear, Tim. Yes, I had known that some time services has interpreted our announcement as the ‘done and dusted’ finalization. At that point in March it was a policy commitment, and the news on that nuance was not totally clear. We just do have some legal process to finish off, which we are on track to do, so I don’t think we will end up in a tough spot. I will let you know when we make our change legally final so we can all rest assured that November 2 will still see us on UTC -7.

...

On July 3, 2020 11:24 AM, Tim Parenti wrote: We made this change in our codebase on 5 March 2020, based on 4 March CBC reporting and a government press release stating that Yukon would be remaining permanently on UTC-7 following its spring-forward transition on 8 March. As such, both America/Dawson and America/Whitehorse have been updated accordingly: https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/e6c1f0e7daa0b6c5131b2976c6be9190845d2b49 (Canada/Yukon is a long-deprecated backwards-compatibility link to America/Whitehorse, so need not be updated separately.) This change is already included in our latest release, 2020a, which was published on 23 April 2020. Although it can sometimes take several weeks or months after publication for our releases to make it to downstream distributions and software updates for various computer and mobile platforms, many recent devices that are receiving regular updates should already have this change, and many more are likely to receive it before Yukon time diverges from our old predictions in November. One (hopefully small) point: Our understanding from the press release at https://yukon.ca/en/news/yukon-end-seasonal-time-change was that this decision was already finalized. If it is not, this is not a major issue, but do note that tz's current predictions published in 2020a do not have Yukon falling back on 1 November 2020… so if for some reason the regulatory processes should be delayed, please contact us as soon as that's apparent. On July 2, 2020 3:48 PM, Amanda Baber via RT wrote: Thank you for contacting us. IANA hosts the Time Zone Database, but the database is managed by the Time Zone Coordinator in conjunction with a mailing list. You can find find mailing list information here: https://www.iana.org/time-zones This document should have or point to much of the information you're looking for: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/tz-link.html As is noted at the link above, "If your government plans to change its time zone boundaries or daylight saving rules, inform tz@iana.org well in advance, as this will coordinate updates to many cell phones, computers, and other devices around the world. With less than a year's notice there is a good chance that some computer-based clocks will operate incorrectly after the change, due to delays in propagating updates to software and data. The shorter the notice, the more likely clock problems will arise; see https://codeofmatt.com/on-the-timing-of-time-zone-changes for examples."

...

On Thu Jul 02 22:20:44 2020, Andrew Smith wrote:

...

I work for the Government of Yukon in Canada. We are in the process of revising our definition of time to be permanently on UTC -7, no longer observing a twice-annual time change. I was on the hunt for authoritative standards related to time, and saw the IANA come up as caretaker of the time zone database, which appears to be relied on for software and systems. I started with ISO 8601, but couldn't see the full text to know if there are time zone standards there. I am contacting you to see your TZ database is a widely adopted and authoritative as it seems, to see if there is any process to making this adjustment in your TZ database, and perhaps to know if there are other agencies that should be aware of what Yukon is planning. From what I see now, TZ database names "America/Dawson", "America/Whitehorse" and "Canada/Yukon" would be affected by this change.

Our regulation is not yet complete, so it is not law at this time and I am not looking for immediate change. We are aiming for finalization here by November 1, 2020.

-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada

This email may be disturbing to some readers as it contains too much technical detail. Reader discretion is advised. [Data in IEC units and prefixes, physical quantities in SI.]