Philippine Standard Time
In the Philippines, there is a national law, Republic Act No. 10535 which declares the official time here as "Philippine Standard Time". The act [1] even specifies use of PST as the abbreviation, although the FAQ provided by PAGASA [2] uses the "acronym PhST to distinguish it from the Pacific Standard Time (PST)." (Interestingly, the act does nothing to define the actual value of Philippine Standard Time; there is no UTC offset or other reference. It simply declares what the time is called, and instructs government agencies to coordinate with PAGASA for synchronization. :) There are references to "Section 6 of Batas Pambansa Bilang 8" [3] (which directs the adoption of the Metric System), but Section 6 merely delegates the task of establishing the definition of "second" to PAGASA. I've been unable so far to find any specific implementing regulation that establishes an official 8-hour offset from GMT.) Not long ago, the TZ database clean-up of "invented" abbreviations removed the PST abbreviation for Asia/Manila, leaving us with no abbreviation. Based on the existence of national law declaring Philippine Standard Time, and formally establishing the abbreviation/acronym, could we please get "PST" (or, if you prefer, "PhST") re-included into the next update of the TZDB? Thanks! References: [1] http://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/2013/05/15/republic-act-no-10535/ [2] https://www1.pagasa.dost.gov.ph/index.php/astronomy/philippine-standard-time... [3] http://www.chanrobles.com/bataspambansabilang8.htm +------------------+--------------------------+----------------------------+ | Paul Goyette | PGP Key fingerprint: | E-mail addresses: | | (Retired) | FA29 0E3B 35AF E8AE 6651 | paul at whooppee dot com | | Kernel Developer | 0786 F758 55DE 53BA 7731 | pgoyette at netbsd dot org | +------------------+--------------------------+----------------------------+
Hmmm, the silence here is deafening! While I didn't expect "acceptance by unanimous acclamation" I didn't expect a total lack of response. :) On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, Paul Goyette wrote:
In the Philippines, there is a national law, Republic Act No. 10535 which declares the official time here as "Philippine Standard Time". The act [1] even specifies use of PST as the abbreviation, although the FAQ provided by PAGASA [2] uses the "acronym PhST to distinguish it from the Pacific Standard Time (PST)."
(Interestingly, the act does nothing to define the actual value of Philippine Standard Time; there is no UTC offset or other reference. It simply declares what the time is called, and instructs government agencies to coordinate with PAGASA for synchronization. :) There are references to "Section 6 of Batas Pambansa Bilang 8" [3] (which directs the adoption of the Metric System), but Section 6 merely delegates the task of establishing the definition of "second" to PAGASA. I've been unable so far to find any specific implementing regulation that establishes an official 8-hour offset from GMT.)
Not long ago, the TZ database clean-up of "invented" abbreviations removed the PST abbreviation for Asia/Manila, leaving us with no abbreviation.
Based on the existence of national law declaring Philippine Standard Time, and formally establishing the abbreviation/acronym, could we please get "PST" (or, if you prefer, "PhST") re-included into the next update of the TZDB?
Thanks!
References: [1] http://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/2013/05/15/republic-act-no-10535/ [2] https://www1.pagasa.dost.gov.ph/index.php/astronomy/philippine-standard-time... [3] http://www.chanrobles.com/bataspambansabilang8.htm
+------------------+--------------------------+----------------------------+ | Paul Goyette | PGP Key fingerprint: | E-mail addresses: | | (Retired) | FA29 0E3B 35AF E8AE 6651 | paul at whooppee dot com | | Kernel Developer | 0786 F758 55DE 53BA 7731 | pgoyette at netbsd dot org | +------------------+--------------------------+----------------------------+
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Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:44:26 +0800 (+08) From: Paul Goyette <paul@whooppee.com> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.1806190943140.5473@speedy.whooppee.com> | Hmmm, the silence here is deafening! While I didn't expect "acceptance | by unanimous acclamation" I didn't expect a total lack of response. My opinion is that almost all of them should come back. Whatever their history, people had become used to them, and no-one was complaining really (we get far more complaints about the much more irrelevant zone names.) kre
Robert Elz <kre@munnari.OZ.AU> writes:
My opinion is that almost all of them should come back. Whatever their history, people had become used to them, and no-one was complaining really (we get far more complaints about the much more irrelevant zone names.)
FWIW (0.2 cents or so?), I agree. Or at least, there should be an *extremely* low standard of proof for external use of a removed abbreviation. Just because people started using what they found in tzdb doesn't make it an invalid citation. (Like it or not, tzdb is the standard so far as most people are concerned; random changes in standards are a bad thing.) In my own downstream project (Postgres), we have so far not removed any of the deleted TZ abbreviations from the list of what we accept for input. Those tzdb changes do affect our output of timestamps, but only in non-default output formats --- the common formats use numeric UTC offsets for zone info. So it's easy to see why we've not seen any pushback from the removal, yet that's not evidence that people aren't using these abbreviations. regards, tom lane
Paul Goyette wrote:
Hmmm, the silence here is deafening!
Sorry, I've been busy with TZif stuff when I had time for tz-related things. When I looked into this a couple of years ago, I looked for instances of "PHST" for Philippine Standard Time, as that is what tzdb used. I found few so PHST didn't make the cut. I didn't know about PST being part of recent Philippine law. I just now checked more carefully, and found several instances of PST meaning Philippine Standard Time in reliable English-language sources. PST is the abbreviation tzdb used in releases 93g through 96j, and (as you reported) has been in Philippines law since 2013. For example: The Philippine Star https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2017/08/01/1723584/partial-lunar-eclipse-... Philippine Daily Inquirer http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/643218/on-wednesday-night-moon-will-turn-dark-b... ABS-CBN http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/08/04/17/save-the-date-partial-lunar-eclipse-to... Conversely, some sources used PhST for the same thing, including: Manila Bulletin https://news.mb.com.ph/2017/10/07/candon-laoag-cities-sync-timepieces-with-p... Philippine Information Agency http://pia.gov.ph/news/articles/1003782 BusinessMirror https://businessmirror.com.ph/no-more-filipino-time-it-should-be-on-time/ I did find a few instances of PHST as well (this is what tzdb used in releases 96k through 2016j), but they were mostly in less-reliable sources. Here's an example: Philippine Daily Inquirer http://esports.inquirer.net/6762/the-international-5-invites-are-here So, it does appear that reliable English-language sources use alphabetic abbreviations for Philippine time, but (a) they don't agree, and (b) they mostly don't use the "PHST" abbreviation that tzdb used in 1996 through 2016. All in all, my impression is that "PST" is more popular among reliable English-language sources. This is not just a measure of Google hit counts: it's looking at the sizes and influence of the sources. So, my inclination would be to go back to "PST" for Philippines time, the way tzdb had it in 1993 through 1996.
(Thanks to Paul Goyette.) * NEWS, theory.html: Mention this. * asia (Phil, Asia/Manila): Prefer PST/PDT to numeric abbreviations. --- NEWS | 4 ++++ asia | 41 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++----------- theory.html | 1 + 3 files changed, 35 insertions(+), 11 deletions(-) diff --git a/NEWS b/NEWS index 87f675e..5296542 100644 --- a/NEWS +++ b/NEWS @@ -17,6 +17,10 @@ Unreleased, experimental changes observed DST in 1942/79, not 1961/80, and there were several errors for transition times and dates. (Thanks to P Chan.) + Changes to time zone abbreviations + + Use "PST" and "PDT" for Philippine time. (Thanks to Paul Goyette.) + Changes to code zic now always generates TZif files where time type 0 is used for diff --git a/asia b/asia index 49abd75..66b3714 100644 --- a/asia +++ b/asia @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@ # tz@iana.org for general use in the future). For more, please see # the file CONTRIBUTING in the tz distribution. -# From Paul Eggert (2017-01-13): +# From Paul Eggert (2018-06-19): # # Unless otherwise specified, the source for data through 1990 is: # Thomas G. Shanks and Rique Pottenger, The International Atlas (6th edition), @@ -35,7 +35,8 @@ # A reliable and entertaining source about time zones is # Derek Howse, Greenwich time and longitude, Philip Wilson Publishers (1997). # -# The following alphabetic abbreviations appear in these tables: +# The following alphabetic abbreviations appear in these tables +# (corrections are welcome): # std dst # LMT Local Mean Time # 2:00 EET EEST Eastern European Time @@ -44,11 +45,13 @@ # 7:00 WIB west Indonesia (Waktu Indonesia Barat) # 8:00 WITA central Indonesia (Waktu Indonesia Tengah) # 8:00 CST China +# 8:00 PST PDT* Philippine Standard Time # 8:30 KST KDT Korea when at +0830 # 9:00 WIT east Indonesia (Waktu Indonesia Timur) # 9:00 JST JDT Japan # 9:00 KST KDT Korea when at +09 # 9:30 ACST Australian Central Standard Time +# *I invented the abbreviation PDT; see "Philippines" below. # Otherwise, these tables typically use numeric abbreviations like +03 # and +0330 for integer hour and minute UT offsets. Although earlier # editions invented alphabetic time zone abbreviations for every @@ -2895,19 +2898,35 @@ Zone Asia/Hebron 2:20:23 - LMT 1900 Oct # Philippine Star 2014-08-05 # http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2014/08/05/1354152/pnoy-urged-declare-use-... +# From Paul Goyette (2018-06-15): +# In the Philippines, there is a national law, Republic Act No. 10535 +# which declares the official time here as "Philippine Standard Time". +# The act [1] even specifies use of PST as the abbreviation, although +# the FAQ provided by PAGASA [2] uses the "acronym PhST to distinguish +# it from the Pacific Standard Time (PST)." +# [1] http://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/2013/05/15/republic-act-no-10535/ +# [2] https://www1.pagasa.dost.gov.ph/index.php/astronomy/philippine-standard-time... +# +# From Paul Eggert (2018-06-19): +# I surveyed recent news reports, and my impression is that "PST" is +# more popular among reliable English-language news sources. This is +# not just a measure of Google hit counts: it's also the sizes and +# influence of the sources. There is no current abbreviation for DST, +# so use "PDT", the usual American style. + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S -Rule Phil 1936 only - Nov 1 0:00 1:00 - -Rule Phil 1937 only - Feb 1 0:00 0 - -Rule Phil 1954 only - Apr 12 0:00 1:00 - -Rule Phil 1954 only - Jul 1 0:00 0 - -Rule Phil 1978 only - Mar 22 0:00 1:00 - -Rule Phil 1978 only - Sep 21 0:00 0 - +Rule Phil 1936 only - Nov 1 0:00 1:00 D +Rule Phil 1937 only - Feb 1 0:00 0 S +Rule Phil 1954 only - Apr 12 0:00 1:00 D +Rule Phil 1954 only - Jul 1 0:00 0 S +Rule Phil 1978 only - Mar 22 0:00 1:00 D +Rule Phil 1978 only - Sep 21 0:00 0 S # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Asia/Manila -15:56:00 - LMT 1844 Dec 31 8:04:00 - LMT 1899 May 11 - 8:00 Phil +08/+09 1942 May - 9:00 - +09 1944 Nov - 8:00 Phil +08/+09 + 8:00 Phil P%sT 1942 May + 9:00 - JST 1944 Nov + 8:00 Phil P%sT # Qatar # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] diff --git a/theory.html b/theory.html index deaa900..50c62f7 100644 --- a/theory.html +++ b/theory.html @@ -402,6 +402,7 @@ in decreasing order of importance: NZST/NZDT New Zealand 1946–present, PKT/PKST Pakistan, PST/PDT/PWT/PPT/PDDT Pacific, + PST/PDT Philippine, SAST South Africa, SST Samoa, WAT/WAST West Africa, -- 2.17.1
On 2018-06-19 19:27, Paul Eggert proposed the changes:
+# The following alphabetic abbreviations appear in these tables +# (corrections are welcome): ... +# 8:00 PST PDT* Philippine Standard Time ...
+# *I invented the abbreviation PDT; see "Philippines" below.
...
+# From Paul Eggert (2018-06-19): +# I surveyed recent news reports, and my impression is that "PST" is +# more popular among reliable English-language news sources. This is +# not just a measure of Google hit counts: it's also the sizes and +# influence of the sources. There is no current abbreviation for DST, +# so use "PDT", the usual American style. + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S -Rule Phil 1936 only - Nov 1 0:00 1:00 - -Rule Phil 1937 only - Feb 1 0:00 0 - -Rule Phil 1954 only - Apr 12 0:00 1:00 - -Rule Phil 1954 only - Jul 1 0:00 0 - -Rule Phil 1978 only - Mar 22 0:00 1:00 - -Rule Phil 1978 only - Sep 21 0:00 0 - +Rule Phil 1936 only - Nov 1 0:00 1:00 D +Rule Phil 1937 only - Feb 1 0:00 0 S +Rule Phil 1954 only - Apr 12 0:00 1:00 D +Rule Phil 1954 only - Jul 1 0:00 0 S +Rule Phil 1978 only - Mar 22 0:00 1:00 D +Rule Phil 1978 only - Sep 21 0:00 0 S # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Asia/Manila -15:56:00 - LMT 1844 Dec 31 8:04:00 - LMT 1899 May 11 - 8:00 Phil +08/+09 1942 May - 9:00 - +09 1944 Nov - 8:00 Phil +08/+09 + 8:00 Phil P%sT 1942 May + 9:00 - JST 1944 Nov + 8:00 Phil P%sT
I am disappointed with these changes. The recent modifications that removed all "invented abbreviations" have been a step forward, but the proposed change is a step backward. Database schemas have to define useful representations of unknown (or inapplicable) information; SQL has special values for that purpose. Inventing ad hoc values that cannot be clearly be identified as such is not a good idea, as is well known. Following database theory, I consider the numerical abbreviations, as introduced into tzdb in 2017 to replace "invented abbreviations", a helpful step in making the tz database more clearly express what is known and what is not. These numerical abbreviations clearly indicate that "there is no known generally used English alphabetic abbreviation for the time scale (but the offset from UT is..)". The 2018e version of tzdb thus seems to represent faithfully what we really knew at the time about the English acronyms used for the Manila time scale (except, perhaps, for the acronym used during the Japanese occupation). The new information we got about the time scale of Manila from Republic Act No. 10535 S. No. 3284 H. No. 164, and from google searches, certainly does not apply to the Manila time scale in 1899, and it does not even imply that the common English acronym, if there was one, for the summer time periods in 1954 and 1978 was different from PST. But the proposed changes affect all of these aspects. I propose to record only what we really have learned since 2018e: the abbreviation PST for Manila time was legally acknowledged in 2013, and it was used later on by some newspapers. Zone Asia/Manila -15:56:00 - LMT 1844 Dec 31 8:04:00 - LMT 1899 May 11 8:00 Phil +08/+09 1942 May 9:00 - +09 1944 Nov - 8:00 Phil +08/+09 + 8:00 Phil +08/+09 2013 May 30 + 8:00 PST Michael Deckers.
On 06/22/2018 04:18 PM, Michael H Deckers via tz wrote:
I propose to record only what we really have learned since 2018e: the abbreviation PST for Manila time was legally acknowledged in 2013, and it was used later on by some newspapers.
Generally speaking, tzdb uses current abbreviations even for older timestamps. That is, tzdb is designed primarily for today's uses, such as a historian writing today about events long ago; it does not attempt to record the long-ago abbreviations, such as the abbreviation Filipinos back in (say) 1950 used to describe time back in 1950. In that sense, it is like modern historians who systematically use the Gregorian calendar even when writing about events that took place in Russia in 1914. Partly this is to simplify maintenance. That is, it's not merely that tzdb is designed for today's uses; it's also that it's easier to keep track of today's abbreviations than to also keep track of historical abbreviations used in the past. This point is covered in <https://data.iana.org/time-zones/theory.html>, which gives the following guideline for abbreviations: -- Use current abbreviations for older timestamps to avoid confusion. For example, in 1910 a common English abbreviation for time in central Europe was 'MEZ' (short for both "Middle European Zone" and for "Mitteleuropäische Zeit" in German). Nowadays 'CET' ("Central European Time") is more common in English, and the database uses 'CET' even for circa-1910 timestamps as this is less confusing for modern users and avoids the need for determining when 'CET' supplanted 'MEZ' in common usage.
On 2018-06-22 17:29, Paul Eggert wrote:
On 06/22/2018 04:18 PM, Michael H Deckers via tz wrote:
I propose to record only what we really have learned since 2018e: the abbreviation PST for Manila time was legally acknowledged in 2013, and it was used later on by some newspapers.
Generally speaking, tzdb uses current abbreviations even for older timestamps. That is, tzdb is designed primarily for today's uses, such as a historian writing today about events long ago; it does not attempt to record the long-ago abbreviations, such as the abbreviation Filipinos back in (say) 1950 used to describe time back in 1950. In that sense, it is like modern historians who systematically use the Gregorian calendar even when writing about events that took place in Russia in 1914.
Partly this is to simplify maintenance. That is, it's not merely that tzdb is designed for today's uses; it's also that it's easier to keep track of today's abbreviations than to also keep track of historical abbreviations used in the past. This point is covered in <https://data.iana.org/time-zones/theory.html>, which gives the following guideline for abbreviations:
Use current abbreviations for older timestamps to avoid confusion. For example, in 1910 a common English abbreviation for time in central Europe was 'MEZ' (short for both "Middle European Zone" and for "Mitteleuropäische Zeit" in German). Nowadays 'CET' ("Central European Time") is more common in English, and the database uses 'CET' even for circa-1910 timestamps as this is less confusing for modern users and avoids the need for determining when 'CET' supplanted 'MEZ' in common usage.
TL;DR: it's hard enough finding reliable, accurate sources for time zone and STD/DST transition data, without adding the burden of also finding reliable, accurate sources for common English abbreviations used from 1970 or earlier ;^> -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
participants (6)
-
Brian Inglis -
Michael H Deckers -
Paul Eggert -
Paul Goyette -
Robert Elz -
Tom Lane