Fiji DST for 2012-2013 announced
According the the Fiji Government Online Portal, "The Minister for Labour, Industrial Relations and Employment Mr Jone Usamate today confirmed that Fiji will start daylight savings at 2 am on Sunday 21st October 2012 and end at 3 am on Sunday 20th January 2013." http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6702:day... Best regards, Steffen Thorsen - timeanddate.com
Are there any plans to release a tz update for this? Thanks, Deborah On Aug 23, 2012, at 6:28 AM, Steffen Thorsen <thorsen@timeanddate.com> wrote:
According the the Fiji Government Online Portal, "The Minister for Labour, Industrial Relations and Employment Mr Jone Usamate today confirmed that Fiji will start daylight savings at 2 am on Sunday 21st October 2012 and end at 3 am on Sunday 20th January 2013."
http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6702:day...
Best regards, Steffen Thorsen - timeanddate.com
On 08/28/2012 01:48 PM, Deborah Goldsmith wrote:
Are there any plans to release a tz update for this?
No exact plans yet, but we should put out a new release well before October 21. Here's a proposed patch to implement this for Fiji, which I've put into the unofficial repository at <https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/7550cb98da5f42e9e551f10caa725ce0b6b571b8>: Subject: [PATCH] Fiji change for 2012/13, plus guess the future is similar. --- australasia | 14 +++++++++++--- 1 file changed, 11 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) diff --git a/australasia b/australasia index c7d5611..eb24117 100644 --- a/australasia +++ b/australasia @@ -321,15 +321,23 @@ Zone Indian/Cocos 6:27:40 - LMT 1900 # The commencement of daylight saving will remain unchanged and start # on the 23rd of October, 2011. +# From the Fiji Government Online Portal (2012-08-21) via Steffen Thorsen: +# The Minister for Labour, Industrial Relations and Employment Mr Jone Usamate +# today confirmed that Fiji will start daylight savings at 2 am on Sunday 21st +# October 2012 and end at 3 am on Sunday 20th January 2013. +# http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6702&cat... +# +# From Paul Eggert (2012-08-31): +# For now, guess a pattern of the penultimate Sundays in October and January. + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule Fiji 1998 1999 - Nov Sun>=1 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 1999 2000 - Feb lastSun 3:00 0 - Rule Fiji 2009 only - Nov 29 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2010 only - Mar lastSun 3:00 0 - -Rule Fiji 2010 only - Oct 24 2:00 1:00 S +Rule Fiji 2010 max - Oct Sun>=18 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2011 only - Mar Sun>=1 3:00 0 - -Rule Fiji 2011 only - Oct 23 2:00 1:00 S -Rule Fiji 2012 only - Jan 22 3:00 0 - +Rule Fiji 2012 max - Jan Sun>=18 3:00 0 - # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Pacific/Fiji 11:53:40 - LMT 1915 Oct 26 # Suva 12:00 Fiji FJ%sT # Fiji Time -- 1.7.9.5
As others suggested, perhaps it is early for a pattern to be asserted. What happens, next year, if nothing is announced, at what point should we pull out the pattern rule. At the moment we get about a months notice for change from Fiji, but next year would we wait until the week before before pulling the pattern. Are we making this potentially worse for end users of the DB. I work in the airline industry, we issue tickets up to 350 days in advance of travel. When a country makes late DST changes it causes some inconvenience for business and customers alike. I now also wonder if the presumption of a pattern might cause conflicts with other sources. IATA / Microsoft etc. With regard to the comment about the release will be before October 21, of course as we are selling tickets so far in advance, for us, anytime after October last year is too late. Also, only when the Olson DB update is released, do vendors get to start work on their own patches... For Java (no flames please) for instance, the JVM vendor often does not release their own patch until 4 to 6 weeks after the Olson change (both Oracle and IBM). Fortunately, being Java (still no flames please), we are able to patch the JVM without waiting for the vendor by adding a single jar file to the bootclasspath we can effect the required timezone changes for the JVM and JodaTime and can do this within hours of an announced change if need be. David On 1 September 2012 01:31, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
On 08/28/2012 01:48 PM, Deborah Goldsmith wrote:
Are there any plans to release a tz update for this?
No exact plans yet, but we should put out a new release well before October 21. Here's a proposed patch to implement this for Fiji, which I've put into the unofficial repository at < https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/7550cb98da5f42e9e551f10caa725ce0b6b571b8
:
Subject: [PATCH] Fiji change for 2012/13, plus guess the future is similar.
--- australasia | 14 +++++++++++--- 1 file changed, 11 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
diff --git a/australasia b/australasia index c7d5611..eb24117 100644 --- a/australasia +++ b/australasia @@ -321,15 +321,23 @@ Zone Indian/Cocos 6:27:40 - LMT 1900 # The commencement of daylight saving will remain unchanged and start # on the 23rd of October, 2011.
+# From the Fiji Government Online Portal (2012-08-21) via Steffen Thorsen: +# The Minister for Labour, Industrial Relations and Employment Mr Jone Usamate +# today confirmed that Fiji will start daylight savings at 2 am on Sunday 21st +# October 2012 and end at 3 am on Sunday 20th January 2013. +# http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6702&cat... +# +# From Paul Eggert (2012-08-31): +# For now, guess a pattern of the penultimate Sundays in October and January. + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule Fiji 1998 1999 - Nov Sun>=1 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 1999 2000 - Feb lastSun 3:00 0 - Rule Fiji 2009 only - Nov 29 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2010 only - Mar lastSun 3:00 0 - -Rule Fiji 2010 only - Oct 24 2:00 1:00 S +Rule Fiji 2010 max - Oct Sun>=18 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2011 only - Mar Sun>=1 3:00 0 - -Rule Fiji 2011 only - Oct 23 2:00 1:00 S -Rule Fiji 2012 only - Jan 22 3:00 0 - +Rule Fiji 2012 max - Jan Sun>=18 3:00 0 - # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Pacific/Fiji 11:53:40 - LMT 1915 Oct 26 # Suva 12:00 Fiji FJ%sT # Fiji Time -- 1.7.9.5
On 09/01/2012 09:12 PM, lord.buddha@gmail.com wrote:
What happens, next year, if nothing is announced, at what point should we pull out the pattern rule.
We'll just have to use our best judgment, based on our experience with Fiji in previous years. We have to predict *something*. At this point it seems more likely that they'll have DST than they won't, which means we'll lessen expected future error if we predict DST.
Some of us have longer lead times than others in terms of getting updates in the hands of users. :-) Is there additional information we're waiting for? Thank you, Deborah On Aug 31, 2012, at 6:31 AM, Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
On 08/28/2012 01:48 PM, Deborah Goldsmith wrote:
Are there any plans to release a tz update for this?
No exact plans yet, but we should put out a new release well before October 21. Here's a proposed patch to implement this for Fiji, which I've put into the unofficial repository at <https://github.com/eggert/tz/commit/7550cb98da5f42e9e551f10caa725ce0b6b571b8>:
Subject: [PATCH] Fiji change for 2012/13, plus guess the future is similar.
--- australasia | 14 +++++++++++--- 1 file changed, 11 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)
diff --git a/australasia b/australasia index c7d5611..eb24117 100644 --- a/australasia +++ b/australasia @@ -321,15 +321,23 @@ Zone Indian/Cocos 6:27:40 - LMT 1900 # The commencement of daylight saving will remain unchanged and start # on the 23rd of October, 2011.
+# From the Fiji Government Online Portal (2012-08-21) via Steffen Thorsen: +# The Minister for Labour, Industrial Relations and Employment Mr Jone Usamate +# today confirmed that Fiji will start daylight savings at 2 am on Sunday 21st +# October 2012 and end at 3 am on Sunday 20th January 2013. +# http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6702&cat... +# +# From Paul Eggert (2012-08-31): +# For now, guess a pattern of the penultimate Sundays in October and January. + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule Fiji 1998 1999 - Nov Sun>=1 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 1999 2000 - Feb lastSun 3:00 0 - Rule Fiji 2009 only - Nov 29 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2010 only - Mar lastSun 3:00 0 - -Rule Fiji 2010 only - Oct 24 2:00 1:00 S +Rule Fiji 2010 max - Oct Sun>=18 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2011 only - Mar Sun>=1 3:00 0 - -Rule Fiji 2011 only - Oct 23 2:00 1:00 S -Rule Fiji 2012 only - Jan 22 3:00 0 - +Rule Fiji 2012 max - Jan Sun>=18 3:00 0 - # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Pacific/Fiji 11:53:40 - LMT 1915 Oct 26 # Suva 12:00 Fiji FJ%sT # Fiji Time -- 1.7.9.5
--- australasia | 12 ++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 12 insertions(+) diff --git a/australasia b/australasia index c7d5611..db31c3e 100644 --- a/australasia +++ b/australasia @@ -321,6 +321,16 @@ Zone Indian/Cocos 6:27:40 - LMT 1900 # The commencement of daylight saving will remain unchanged and start # on the 23rd of October, 2011. +# From Steffen Thorsen (2012-08-23) +# According the the Fiji Government Online Portal, "The Minister for Labour, +# Industrial Relations and Employment Mr Jone Usamate today confirmed that +# Fiji will start daylight savings at 2 am on Sunday 21st October 2012 and +# end at 3 am on Sunday 20th January 2013." +# +# <a href="http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6702:daylight-saving-starts-on-sunday-21st-october-2012&catid=71:press-releases&Itemid=155"> +# http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6702:day... +# </a> + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule Fiji 1998 1999 - Nov Sun>=1 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 1999 2000 - Feb lastSun 3:00 0 - @@ -330,6 +340,8 @@ Rule Fiji 2010 only - Oct 24 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2011 only - Mar Sun>=1 3:00 0 - Rule Fiji 2011 only - Oct 23 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2012 only - Jan 22 3:00 0 - +Rule Fiji 2012 only - Oct 21 2:00 1:00 S +Rule Fiji 2013 only - Jan 20 3:00 0 - # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Pacific/Fiji 11:53:40 - LMT 1915 Oct 26 # Suva 12:00 Fiji FJ%sT # Fiji Time -- 1.7.12
The new lines look right to me. I wish Fiji could declare it as an ongoing rule: 3rd sunday October to 3rd Sunday January but that would take some of fun out of this time of year. Can we expect 2012f shortly..... On 29 August 2012 21:13, Ian Abbott <abbotti@mev.co.uk> wrote:
--- australasia | 12 ++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 12 insertions(+)
diff --git a/australasia b/australasia index c7d5611..db31c3e 100644 --- a/australasia +++ b/australasia @@ -321,6 +321,16 @@ Zone Indian/Cocos 6:27:40 - LMT 1900 # The commencement of daylight saving will remain unchanged and start # on the 23rd of October, 2011.
+# From Steffen Thorsen (2012-08-23) +# According the the Fiji Government Online Portal, "The Minister for Labour, +# Industrial Relations and Employment Mr Jone Usamate today confirmed that +# Fiji will start daylight savings at 2 am on Sunday 21st October 2012 and +# end at 3 am on Sunday 20th January 2013." +# +# <a href=" http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6702:day... "> +# http://www.fiji.gov.fj/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6702:day... +# </a> + # Rule NAME FROM TO TYPE IN ON AT SAVE LETTER/S Rule Fiji 1998 1999 - Nov Sun>=1 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 1999 2000 - Feb lastSun 3:00 0 - @@ -330,6 +340,8 @@ Rule Fiji 2010 only - Oct 24 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2011 only - Mar Sun>=1 3:00 0 - Rule Fiji 2011 only - Oct 23 2:00 1:00 S Rule Fiji 2012 only - Jan 22 3:00 0 - +Rule Fiji 2012 only - Oct 21 2:00 1:00 S +Rule Fiji 2013 only - Jan 20 3:00 0 - # Zone NAME GMTOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] Zone Pacific/Fiji 11:53:40 - LMT 1915 Oct 26 # Suva 12:00 Fiji FJ%sT # Fiji Time -- 1.7.12
On 2012-08-29 11:17, lord.buddha@gmail.com wrote:
I wish Fiji could declare it as an ongoing rule: 3rd sunday October to 3rd Sunday January but that would take some of fun out of this time of year.
For 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 (so far) DST in Fiji runs from the 4th Sunday of October to the 4th Sunday of January (though for 2012, end of DST was originally scheduled for Thursday 2012-01-26 before being rescheduled for Sunday 2012-01-22). -- -=( Ian Abbott @ MEV Ltd. E-mail: <abbotti@mev.co.uk> )=- -=( Tel: +44 (0)161 477 1898 FAX: +44 (0)161 718 3587 )=-
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 11:51:10 +0100 From: Ian Abbott <abbotti@mev.co.uk> Message-ID: <503DF41E.8060203@mev.co.uk> | For 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 (so far) DST in Fiji runs from the 4th | Sunday of October to the 4th Sunday of January I'd guess it is more likely to be the 2nd last Snday (Sun>=18) than the 4th though we don't yet have enough cases to leap to the conclusion that they're following a de-facto rule (perhaps without even realising it.) It could perhaps be worth putting a comment in the source this time, and then next year if the pattern repeats, perhaps making the assumption for future years might be warranted. kre
On 2012-08-29 12:47, Robert Elz wrote:
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 11:51:10 +0100 From: Ian Abbott <abbotti@mev.co.uk> Message-ID: <503DF41E.8060203@mev.co.uk>
| For 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 (so far) DST in Fiji runs from the 4th | Sunday of October to the 4th Sunday of January
I'd guess it is more likely to be the 2nd last Snday (Sun>=18) than the 4th though we don't yet have enough cases to leap to the conclusion that they're following a de-facto rule (perhaps without even realising it.)
My remark was wrong anyway - I must have been looking at the wrong months or years! Your 2nd last Sunday pattern seems to fit.
It could perhaps be worth putting a comment in the source this time, and then next year if the pattern repeats, perhaps making the assumption for future years might be warranted.
"2nd last Sunday" seems a little obscure though. Probably just a coincidence it fits two years running. -- -=( Ian Abbott @ MEV Ltd. E-mail: <abbotti@mev.co.uk> )=- -=( Tel: +44 (0)161 477 1898 FAX: +44 (0)161 718 3587 )=-
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:37:11 +0100 From: Ian Abbott <abbotti@mev.co.uk> Message-ID: <503E2917.2090101@mev.co.uk> | "2nd last Sunday" seems a little obscure though. Probably just a | coincidence it fits two years running. For October there have been (or will have been, after this next one) three of them, which is more like a pattern, particularly if it happens again next year. For summer time ending this will be only the second time, so basing forward estimates on that is more problematic. The "2nd last" thing isn't as weird as it sounds, though we don't yet have enough data to know if that's how they're picking dates (deliberately os just because some other factor leads to the same result). Another plausible possibility is "Sun>=19" (the last Sunday that results in a full week after the shift) (in a 31 day month of course). Assuming the basic pattern continues, we'll know which of those it is (assuming it is either) when the dates for 2015 are announced (the 2014-2015 dates for the Jan date, and the 2015-2016 dates for Oct). kre
2nd last sounds good so long as there is precedent for it. Perhaps the real pattern here is do something different every year with just a months or so notice so a wait and see approach is most wise. There is an election promised for 2014 which might result in a change. On 30 August 2012 04:01, Robert Elz <kre@munnari.oz.au> wrote:
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 15:37:11 +0100 From: Ian Abbott <abbotti@mev.co.uk> Message-ID: <503E2917.2090101@mev.co.uk>
| "2nd last Sunday" seems a little obscure though. Probably just a | coincidence it fits two years running.
For October there have been (or will have been, after this next one) three of them, which is more like a pattern, particularly if it happens again next year. For summer time ending this will be only the second time, so basing forward estimates on that is more problematic.
The "2nd last" thing isn't as weird as it sounds, though we don't yet have enough data to know if that's how they're picking dates (deliberately os just because some other factor leads to the same result).
Another plausible possibility is "Sun>=19" (the last Sunday that results in a full week after the shift) (in a 31 day month of course).
Assuming the basic pattern continues, we'll know which of those it is (assuming it is either) when the dates for 2015 are announced (the 2014-2015 dates for the Jan date, and the 2015-2016 dates for Oct).
kre
participants (6)
-
Deborah Goldsmith -
Ian Abbott -
lord.buddha＠gmail.com -
Paul Eggert -
Robert Elz -
Steffen Thorsen