New timezone Antarctica/Concordia (UTC+8)
Goodmorning. I'm writing here to propose a new time zone for an all-year open Antarctic base. The base is a French–Italian research facility that was built 3,233 m (10,607 ft) above sea level at a location called Dome C on the Antarctic Plateau, Antarctica. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordia_Station The timezone is UTC+8 without DST. Best regards, Erik Geletti -- Erik Geletti Servizi Tecnici ed Informatici Istituto Nazionale di Oceanografia e di Geofisica Sperimentale - OGS Borgo Grotta Gigante n. 42/c 34010 Sgonico (Trieste) - Italia Tel. 0402140286 www.ogs.it
Hi to all. Thanks! Will it also be added as Antarctica/Concordia? So it could be used in Linux, like Antarctica/DumontDUrville. Erik Il giorno mar 1 ott 2024 alle ore 05:28 Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> ha scritto:
On 2024-09-30 16:50, Doug Ewell via tz wrote:
So, basically, the same as Asia/Singapore since 1982.
Thanks for the suggestion; I installed the attached change to commentary.
It already has an identifier that can be used in Linux. The identifier is Asia/Singapore. -- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org From: Erik Geletti <egeletti@ogs.it> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2024 1:41 To: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> Cc: Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>; Time zone mailing list <tz@iana.org> Subject: Re: [tz] Re: New timezone Antarctica/Concordia (UTC+8) Hi to all. Thanks! Will it also be added as Antarctica/Concordia? So it could be used in Linux, like Antarctica/DumontDUrville. Erik Il giorno mar 1 ott 2024 alle ore 05:28 Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu<mailto:eggert@cs.ucla.edu>> ha scritto: On 2024-09-30 16:50, Doug Ewell via tz wrote:
So, basically, the same as Asia/Singapore since 1982.
Thanks for the suggestion; I installed the attached change to commentary.
So is not possible to have an official alias like Antarctica/McMurdo and Antarctica/DumontDUrville? In that way it will be easier to identify the time zone name on different softwares and interfaces. Is not nice to see Singapore when you are so distant from it... Regards, Erik Il giorno mar 15 ott 2024 alle ore 08:25 Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org> ha scritto:
It already has an identifier that can be used in Linux. The identifier is Asia/Singapore.
--
Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
*From:* Erik Geletti <egeletti@ogs.it> *Sent:* Monday, October 14, 2024 1:41 *To:* Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> *Cc:* Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>; Time zone mailing list <tz@iana.org> *Subject:* Re: [tz] Re: New timezone Antarctica/Concordia (UTC+8)
Hi to all.
Thanks! Will it also be added as Antarctica/Concordia? So it could be used in Linux, like Antarctica/DumontDUrville.
Erik
Il giorno mar 1 ott 2024 alle ore 05:28 Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> ha scritto:
On 2024-09-30 16:50, Doug Ewell via tz wrote:
So, basically, the same as Asia/Singapore since 1982.
Thanks for the suggestion; I installed the attached change to commentary.
On 2024-11-21 19:53, Erik Geletti via tz wrote:
So is not possible to have an official alias like Antarctica/McMurdo and Antarctica/DumontDUrville? In that way it will be easier to identify the time zone name on different softwares and interfaces. Is not nice to see Singapore when you are so distant from it...
Il giorno mar 15 ott 2024 alle ore 08:25 Doug Ewell ha scritto: It already has an identifier that can be used in Linux. The identifier is Asia/Singapore.____
Just add your own symlink: $ [ -h /usr/share/zoneinfo/Antarctica/Concordia ] \ || sudo ln -rs /usr/share/zoneinfo/{Asia/Singapore,Antarctica/Concordia} and if your package manager is unfriendly and wipes it on tzdata updates, add a post-update hook to recreate it if required. Or submit a suitable patch to your distro tzdata package maintainer: Add "Link Asia/Singapore Antarctica/Concordia" to antarctica or local data file. Or clone and rename the asia Singapore entry into your own antarctica or local data file, with appropriate changes.
On Monday, October 14, 2024 1:41, Erik Geletti wrote: Thanks! Will it also be added as Antarctica/Concordia? So it could be used in Linux, like Antarctica/DumontDUrville.
Il giorno mar 1 ott 2024 alle ore 05:28 Paul Eggert ha scritto: On 2024-09-30 16:50, Doug Ewell via tz wrote: > So, basically, the same as Asia/Singapore since 1982.
Thanks for the suggestion; I installed the attached change to commentary.
-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
On 11/22/24 14:43, Brian Inglis via tz wrote:
On 2024-11-21 19:53, Erik Geletti via tz wrote:
So is not possible to have an official alias like Antarctica/McMurdo and Antarctica/DumontDUrville? In that way it will be easier to identify the time zone name on different softwares and interfaces. Is not nice to see Singapore when you are so distant from it...
Il giorno mar 15 ott 2024 alle ore 08:25 Doug Ewell ha scritto: It already has an identifier that can be used in Linux. The identifier is Asia/Singapore.____
Just add your own symlink: . How would that work with utilities that determine timezone based on geographic location?
And would it be contrary too the dictum that zoneinfo names are not to be considered user interfaces? -- gil
On 2024-11-22 14:59, Paul Gilmartin via tz wrote:
On 11/22/24 14:43, Brian Inglis via tz wrote:
On 2024-11-21 19:53, Erik Geletti via tz wrote:
So is not possible to have an official alias like Antarctica/McMurdo and Antarctica/DumontDUrville? In that way it will be easier to identify the time zone name on different softwares and interfaces. Is not nice to see Singapore when you are so distant from it...
Il giorno mar 15 ott 2024 alle ore 08:25 Doug Ewell ha scritto: It already has an identifier that can be used in Linux. The identifier is Asia/Singapore.
Just add your own symlink: . How would that work with utilities that determine timezone based on geographic location?
If they support Concordia, they already know, and if not they need updated.
And would it be contrary to the dictum that zoneinfo names are not to be considered user interfaces?
Identifiers not names: until they got renamed after political pressure! ;^> *NO* is always a valid answer to any and all change requests, including this OP. I and most other users are backward and just want to see names that make sense to us: renames and links between countries and continents/oceans do not. Now, if the OP had submitted some date limits on habitation, and variations in observance, a new zone may have been required. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Paul Gilmartin replied indirectly to Erik Geletti:
So is not possible to have an official alias like Antarctica/McMurdo and Antarctica/DumontDUrville? In that way it will be easier to identify the time zone name on different softwares and interfaces. Is not nice to see Singapore when you are so distant from it... [...] And would it be contrary too the dictum that zoneinfo names are not to be considered user interfaces?
This is the basic principle that the OP is not getting. -- Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
On 2024-11-21 18:53, Erik Geletti wrote:
Is not nice to see Singapore when you are so distant from it...
This sort of thing happens elsewhere in TZDB. For example, just today it was brought to the list's attention that the Eyre Bird Observatory in Australia can (and probably does) use TZ="Asia/Tokyo"[1]. To simplify use and maintenance, we typically don't add new names if existing ones will do. [1]: https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/thread/N7KI224WAWKR3JW32O...
According to my understanding, the tz id in the database are just the database key, they are not meant to be name for user to select, and software are supposed to do the mapping of the place where user select/locate being part of which time zone. On 2024-11-22 Fri 23:50, Erik Geletti via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
So is not possible to have an official alias like Antarctica/McMurdo and Antarctica/DumontDUrville? In that way it will be easier to identify the time zone name on different softwares and interfaces. Is not nice to see Singapore when you are so distant from it... Regards,
Erik
Il giorno mar 15 ott 2024 alle ore 08:25 Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org> ha scritto:
It already has an identifier that can be used in Linux. The identifier is Asia/Singapore.
--
Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
*From:* Erik Geletti <egeletti@ogs.it> *Sent:* Monday, October 14, 2024 1:41 *To:* Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> *Cc:* Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>; Time zone mailing list <tz@iana.org> *Subject:* Re: [tz] Re: New timezone Antarctica/Concordia (UTC+8)
Hi to all.
Thanks! Will it also be added as Antarctica/Concordia? So it could be used in Linux, like Antarctica/DumontDUrville.
Erik
Il giorno mar 1 ott 2024 alle ore 05:28 Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> ha scritto:
On 2024-09-30 16:50, Doug Ewell via tz wrote:
So, basically, the same as Asia/Singapore since 1982.
Thanks for the suggestion; I installed the attached change to commentary.
Hi, Opinions vary about aliasing... But I do think it would make sense to add at least Asia/Singapore to the AQ country code list at <https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/38eea0e2630686cd13c7e8753d4ddb40792b486d/z...> cheers Derick On 23 November 2024 07:22:23 CET, Phake Nick via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
According to my understanding, the tz id in the database are just the database key, they are not meant to be name for user to select, and software are supposed to do the mapping of the place where user select/locate being part of which time zone.
On 2024-11-22 Fri 23:50, Erik Geletti via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
So is not possible to have an official alias like Antarctica/McMurdo and Antarctica/DumontDUrville? In that way it will be easier to identify the time zone name on different softwares and interfaces. Is not nice to see Singapore when you are so distant from it... Regards,
Erik
Il giorno mar 15 ott 2024 alle ore 08:25 Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org> ha scritto:
It already has an identifier that can be used in Linux. The identifier is Asia/Singapore.
--
Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
*From:* Erik Geletti <egeletti@ogs.it> *Sent:* Monday, October 14, 2024 1:41 *To:* Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> *Cc:* Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>; Time zone mailing list <tz@iana.org> *Subject:* Re: [tz] Re: New timezone Antarctica/Concordia (UTC+8)
Hi to all.
Thanks! Will it also be added as Antarctica/Concordia? So it could be used in Linux, like Antarctica/DumontDUrville.
Erik
Il giorno mar 1 ott 2024 alle ore 05:28 Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> ha scritto:
On 2024-09-30 16:50, Doug Ewell via tz wrote:
So, basically, the same as Asia/Singapore since 1982.
Thanks for the suggestion; I installed the attached change to commentary.
On 2024-11-23 02:22, Derick Rethans via tz wrote:
But I do think it would make sense to add at least Asia/Singapore to the AQ country code list
Thanks for the suggestion. I installed the attached proposed patch, which does that for Concordia in Antarctica, and also adds Asia/Tokyo for the Eyre Bird Observatory in Australia.
On 2024-11-25 20:31, Jule Leonie Dabars wrote:
have a remark regarding your proposed changes to zone1970.tab and zone.tab: In version 2024b every tz identifier appeared only once per file. Now Asia/Tokyo and Asia/Singapore appear twice.
zone1970.tab says: "If a timezone covers multiple countries, the most-populous city is used, # and that country is listed first in column 1; any other countries # are listed alphabetically by country code." Therefore, my suggestion for zone1970.tab would be:
-AQ-750600+1232000Asia/SingaporeConcordia
-AU-321447+1261806Asia/TokyoEyre Bird Observatory
-JP+353916+1394441Asia/Tokyo +JP,AU+353916+1394441Asia/TokyoEyre Bird Observatory
-SG,MY+0117+10351Asia/Singaporepeninsular Malaysia +SG,AQ,MY+0117+10351Asia/SingaporeConcordia, peninsular Malaysia
For zone.tab I don´t have a good solution, because it would require Asia/ Concordia and Australia/Eyre and new links in the backward file.
Thanks, good catch. zone.tab is a backward-compatibility hack, so let's simply revert the change to it. For zone1970.tab your fix looks good. I installed the attached.
That would be nice, but most open source software projects and developers do not have the spare time and manpower to implement a gazetteer interface, such as provided by commercial systems and packages, or via OpenStreetMap API, to look up a location and get a tz id. So for example, Mozilla Thunderbird's Lightning calendar/event scheduler component still just shows the zone tz id paths for selection. At least on many distros, you should be able to run tzselect if they provide it in a package, and perhaps make that package part of the default install set, to select yourself a suitable tzid using geographic coordinates, or successive continent/ocean, country, region selections. Of course, how you get from such selections about Antarctica to Signapore may be problematic, except by reading the comments in the antarctica tz data file. On 2024-11-22 23:22, Phake Nick via tz wrote:
According to my understanding, the tz id in the database are just the database key, they are not meant to be name for user to select, and software are supposed to do the mapping of the place where user select/locate being part of which time zone.
On 2024-11-22 Fri 23:50, Erik Geletti via tz <tz@iana.org <mailto:tz@iana.org>> wrote:
So is not possible to have an official alias like Antarctica/McMurdo and Antarctica/DumontDUrville? In that way it will be easier to identify the time zone name on different softwares and interfaces. Is not nice to see Singapore when you are so distant from it...
Il giorno mar 15 ott 2024 alle ore 08:25 Doug Ewell ha scritto: It already has an identifier that can be used in Linux. The identifier is Asia/Singapore.
On Monday, October 14, 2024 1:41, Erik Geletti wrote: Thanks! Will it also be added as Antarctica/Concordia? So it could be used in Linux, like Antarctica/DumontDUrville.
Il giorno mar 1 ott 2024 alle ore 05:28 Paul Eggert ha scritto: On 2024-09-30 16:50, Doug Ewell via tz wrote:
So, basically, the same as Asia/Singapore since 1982.
Thanks for the suggestion; I installed the attached change to commentary.
-- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
On 11/23/24 09:27, Brian Inglis via tz wrote:
That would be nice, but most open source software projects and developers do not have the spare time and manpower to implement a gazetteer interface, such as provided by commercial systems and packages, or via OpenStreetMap API, to look up a location and get a tz id. . Suppose I wish to inform multiple correspondents in distant locations of a recurring virtual meeting. Should I: o Suggest they use tzselect for my location? (They won't.)
Send them: o Olson: TZ=America/Denver o POSIX: TZ=MST7MDT,M3.2.0,M11.1.0 Ugh! the only format known by IBM mainframes. o a .ics file, an obscure standard, but Outlook groks it.
So for example, Mozilla Thunderbird's Lightning calendar/event scheduler component still just shows the zone tz id paths for selection. . MacOS does better, but it's cumbersome: Change timezone; add event; restore timezone.
-- gil
On 2024-11-23 12:13, Paul Gilmartin via tz wrote:
On 11/23/24 09:27, Brian Inglis via tz wrote:
That would be nice, but most open source software projects and developers do not have the spare time and manpower to implement a gazetteer interface, such as provided by commercial systems and packages, or via OpenStreetMap API, to look up a location and get a tz id. . Suppose I wish to inform multiple correspondents in distant locations of a recurring virtual meeting. Should I: o Suggest they use tzselect for my location? (They won't.) Send them: o Olson: TZ=America/Denver o POSIX: TZ=MST7MDT,M3.2.0,M11.1.0 Ugh! the only format known by IBM mainframes. o a .ics file, an obscure standard, but Outlook groks it.
So for example, Mozilla Thunderbird's Lightning calendar/event scheduler component still just shows the zone tz id paths for selection. . MacOS does better, but it's cumbersome: Change timezone; add event; restore timezone.
Thunderbird groks .ics and .vcs, and does not have a problem dealing with time zones; it just has to convert and handle everything with tz ids; and you may have to fix it up if it converts to the wrong zone, because there is something missing to do the correct mapping. The same probably goes for tz ids, for which there is not a Windows time zone to map to, if packages do not use e.g. ICU zones and mappings which fill in the gaps. -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
participants (8)
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Brian Inglis -
brian.inglis＠systematicsw.ab.ca
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Derick Rethans -
Doug Ewell -
Erik Geletti -
Paul Eggert -
Paul Gilmartin -
Phake Nick