I'm forwarding this message from Carlos Raúl Perasso, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the list, please direct replies appropriately. --ado ________________________________________ From: Carlos Raúl Perasso [crperasso@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:32 PM To: olsona@lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Proposal to the Paraguayan Government Hi Olson... I would like to know, considering the tz datebase update procedure and the frequency at which mayor Linux distros, Java, Oracle and so on replicate this updates, how many days do you think there should be between a rule change and the next date it affects. Thanks and best regards, Carlos Raúl Perasso ...
A year would be a good start. paul
-----Original Message----- From: Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] [mailto:olsona@dc37a.nci.nih.gov] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:47 PM To: tz@elsie.nci.nih.gov Cc: crperasso@gmail.com Subject: FW: Proposal to the Paraguayan Government
I'm forwarding this message from Carlos Raúl Perasso, who is not on the time zone mailing list. Those of you who are on the list, please direct replies appropriately.
--ado ________________________________________ From: Carlos Raúl Perasso [crperasso@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:32 PM To: olsona@lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Proposal to the Paraguayan Government
Hi Olson...
I would like to know, considering the tz datebase update procedure and the frequency at which mayor Linux distros, Java, Oracle and so on replicate this updates, how many days do you think there should be between a rule change and the next date it affects.
Thanks and best regards,
Carlos Raúl Perasso
...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Paul Koning escribió: ...
From: Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E]
...
From: Carlos Raúl Perasso [crperasso@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:32 PM To: olsona@lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Proposal to the Paraguayan Government
Hi Olson...
I would like to know, considering the tz datebase update procedure and the frequency at which mayor Linux distros, Java, Oracle and so on replicate this updates, how many days do you think there should be between a rule change and the next date it affects.
Carlos, I lived the experience of the Venezuelan Gov't timezone change from UTC-0400 to UTC-0430 in 2007, which gave us very few months to prepare a new release of tzdata and then push it into the most used Linux distro (Debian) in critical gov't infrastructure (such as the power utility where I used to work) I believe the Sun people responded on a timely fashion for Solaris, yet I don't know how it might be at this moment while they merge. Our Microsoft Windows team had a hard time, patch arrived very late for them to simulate the time change (I assume they don't use Olson's DB any way) and they had long downtimes. Even if the Olson database is pushed on a timely manner, some vendors will give you surprises. After this timezone change, a SCADA system failed to report a switch in a substation. Because they mixed various versions of PLCs, they found out some of them were up-to-date, some of them were not and some of them didn't need a timezone change on the PLC itself since they reported in UTC... Such a decision is not to be taken lightly by any government (take into account we're not used to yearly timezone changes such as DST in most of the LatAm countries) nor it should be taken just with political basis. After this 2007 change, both the Venezuelan gov't and political opposers recommended to change the timezone again in order to save energy. In a country where only the northernmost cities experience an under 1 hour difference in daytime, year-round, moving the timezone again without taking into account a DST measure (which would be unusual for our lat) would be disastrous, some argue that it'd even lead to energy waste. I wish you luck in your considerations for timezone changes in .py, - -- José Miguel Parrella Romero (bureado.com.ve) PGP: 0×88D4B7DF Debian Developer Caracas, VE/Quito, EC -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJLtCPrAAoJEMAyQqmI1LffZGYP/0fSP0CZSVDcA/2EIstFtfPK Am9b3oEJHut1jtxG568v13jf7x9WJlOB70BoI3LVHZS6zogrtagIHTdsD6H+HBcg F1iW4cEOe4lp4ilKMd876yeFRqu4ZtvUVdZ9TvHCxUWF+KCBunkf9BsWAVIlnQz1 f76mVcWyl7sY4tqp8F03h5RBlH/sSjzvKxPWZZHc5318IpvrRdP879PojgDaKEHJ +Fqh/YXjTgLi7wUuybgjLCxqjp2lWSqF5DPhJQHOYUe3bjo3MD7kqb4My87g223P 3CpHK243LG8GwG0ZECSGs6DH5I9gNNkKhPp/09Z7ld5Ii5ZgQtcQtDraMDnMfMBH /fsszY4aUqXs+KIf88VXlI+rTwbV2eaDKzm9ZJMYAHIPvNfyWXNyENbe12nDLUHH 5fHbeLqfPIspHvP7476ncLzx1fUTNYl8JwXReNSRJtJTklBV21vbTLl9dgeoLxJY pZ8j9a4VUTBHUkJ6vjyju4HQT94O9GnHmh5S3HIwlLXua8p8XVq88E2hWrKpdDQt 7PhcEzVzTkr+9qlyyfX/V+EcVYtYSXMGE5yc8Zk0O2B1PPXBqTrKXn1xaHZHjND3 Te8uFoww1jy9z+b7tLEJGGkHvoQhgClW9VRAKqU3x6kZM5hxcc8kKneC3Ulcm3tF r+gRgc79LmzL65paGweH =XCBd -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] escribió el 31/03/10 15:47:
From: Carlos Raúl Perasso [crperasso@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:32 PM To: olsona@lecserver.nci.nih.gov Subject: Proposal to the Paraguayan Government
Hi Olson...
I would like to know, considering the tz datebase update procedure and the frequency at which mayor Linux distros, Java, Oracle and so on replicate this updates, how many days do you think there should be between a rule change and the next date it affects.
Hola Carlos, as Paul Koning says, one year is a good start... personally, given the recent history of Argentina, I'd say 4 or 5 months would rock, and anything longer than a week would be fine... :-( The time it takes from a reasonably confirmed published source until it appears in tzdata is usually a couple of weeks or less, then, it is in the hands of distributors.
From my own (little) experience, debian takes a couple of weeks or so and ubuntu sometimes less if there's someone who cares to file a bug and follow it hardly... The last change to Argentina data that was made last October and was announced on Friday 16th and to be applied at 0:00 Sunday 18th (yes, less that 48 hours of time).
tzdata2009p reflecting those changes appeared on Monday 26th (less than 2 weeks) but the ubuntu maintainer somehow trusted me and Margarita Manterola (who is a debian maintainer) and applied the patch she made to ubuntu-updates on Saturday 17th (right on time if you had automatic updates applied daily). However this is hardly the norm (and most concious sysadmin wouldn't apply updates automatically... I don't). If you have ANY kind of influence with the people responsible for deciding on timezone issues within Paraguay, please try to convince them to decide and publish Laws or Decrees at least 6 months in advance of the date they have to be applied. Saludos. -- Mariano Absatz - "El Baby" baby@baby.com.ar www.clueless.com.ar -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alcohol & calculus don't mix. Never drink & derive -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- * TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org
Hola a todos, Thanks for the answers. I will try to (at least) set a precedence with the committee that takes this decisions in Paraguay. I think that in some sort of way we are in a middle point between the people that make the DST changes and the ones that implement the tzdata into their own applications/platforms. We should try to push both ways to have the rules set with at least 6 months of head time and to get the tzdata changes included into applications/platform updates more regularly. I will do what I can from my place. Saludos, Carlos
participants (5)
-
Carlos Raúl Perasso -
José Miguel Parrella Romero -
Mariano Absatz - El Baby -
Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] -
Paul Koning