Possible error in Europe/Kiev for 1991 - 1992
In western and Ukrainian astrology circles, there is on ongoing dispute about which timezone was in force in Kiev/Ukraine on the date the parliament decided about its independence, on 24 August 1991. Mostly, a timezone of GMT +3h is considered correct. This is in conflict with what TZ database states for that date. TZ database holds: # Most of Ukraine since 1970 has been like Kiev. Zone Europe/Kiev 2:02:04 - LMT 1880 2:02:04 - KMT 1924 May 2 # KievMTime 2:00 - EET 1930 Jun 21 3:00 - MSK 1941 Sep 20 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1943 Nov 6 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 3:00 - MSK 1990 Jul 1 2:00 2:00 - EET 1992 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1995 2:00 EU EE%sT Which makes reference to these DST rules #DST rules for Russia after WW2 Rule Russia 1981 1984 - Apr 1 0:00 1:00 S Rule Russia 1981 1983 - Oct 1 0:00 0 - Rule Russia 1984 1991 - Sep lastSun 2:00s 0 - Rule Russia 1985 1991 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 1:00 S Rule Russia 1992 only - Mar lastSat 23:00 1:00 S Rule Russia 1992 only - Sep lastSat 23:00 0 - Rule Russia 1993 2010 - Mar lastSun 2:00s 1:00 S Rule Russia 1993 1995 - Sep lastSun 2:00s 0 - Rule Russia 1996 2010 - Oct lastSun 2:00s 0 - #Modern EU rules Rule EU 1981 max - Mar lastSun 1:00u 1:00 S Rule EU 1996 max - Oct lastSun 1:00u 0 - # E-Eur differs from EU only in that E-Eur switches at midnight local time. Rule E-Eur 1977 1980 - Apr Sun>=1 0:00 1:00 S Rule E-Eur 1977 only - Sep lastSun 0:00 0 - Rule E-Eur 1978 only - Oct 1 0:00 0 - Rule E-Eur 1979 1995 - Sep lastSun 0:00 0 - Rule E-Eur 1981 max - Mar lastSun 0:00 1:00 S Rule E-Eur 1996 max - Oct lastSun 0:00 0 - This gives for the transition years 1990/1991/1992 the following: - Kiev (and most of Ukraine) started the year 1990 with Moscow time (3he). - It did not apply DST on last Sunday of March 1990, like Russia did. - It went from 3he to 2he on 1st July 1990. - It had no DST during 1991, i.e. it was the whole year on 2he. - It stayed on 2he until last sunday in March 1992, when it turned on DST according the the E-Eur rules. Via my US colleage David Cochrane, I received copies from a Moscow fellow, first name Vladimir, who reported several government documents, refering to Ukrainia timezones. Vladimir writes: --- quote Good news that now we have more documents online in Ukrainian language as well as Google translator.
why this decree states to go off DST when DST was not observed in Kiev in 1991.
I did a research in laws and now we have an answer. Unfortunately, we should change a little our DST tables for Kiev and Ukraine. First in Ukraine they changed Time zone from UTC+3 to UTC+2 with DST: 03 25 1990 02:00 -03.00 1 Time Zone 3 with DST 07 01 1990 02:00 -02.00 1 Time Zone 2 with DST * Ukrainian Government's Resolution of 18.06.1990, No. 134. http://search.ligazakon.ua/l_doc2.nsf/link1/T001500.html They did not end DST in September, 1990 (according to the law, "summer time" was still in action): 09 30 1990 03:00 -02.00 1 Time Zone 2 with DST * Ukrainian Government's Resolution of 21.09.1990, No. 272. http://search.ligazakon.ua/l_doc2.nsf/link1/KP900272.html Again no change in March, 1991 ("summer time" in action): 03 31 1991 02:00 -02.00 1 Time Zone 2 with DST DST ended in September 1991 ("summer time" ended): 09 29 1991 03:00 -02.00 0 Time Zone 2, no DST * Ukrainian Government's Resolution of 25.09.1991, No. 225. http://www.uazakon.com/documents/date_21/pg_iwgdoc.htm This is an answer. Since 1992 they had normal DST procedure: 03 29 1992 02:00 -02.00 1 DST started 09 27 1992 03:00 -02.00 0 DST ended * Ukrainian Government's Resolution of 20.03.1992, No. 139. http://www.uazakon.com/documents/date_8u/pg_grcasa.htm ------ end quote I (Alois) interpret him like this: - On 1 Jan 1990, Kiev was on GMT + 3h (I call this 3he, 3 hours east). - on 25 March 1990, at 02:00 am, it went to DST, i.e. to 4he - on 1 July 1990, at 2:00 am, it shifted the standard time, kept the DST, moving effectively from 4he to 3he - no change on 30 Sept 1990, the kept DST, i.e. stayed on 3he (Russia ended DST on that data) - no change on 31 March 1991, Kiev stayed on 3he (Russia began DST on that data) - on 29 Sept 1991, at 03:00 am, Kiev ended DST, went to 2he - on 29 March 1992, 2:00 am, Kiev started DST, went to 3he - on 27 Sept 1992, 2:00 am, Kiev ended DST, went to 2he I have used Google translation to get the content of the links Vladimir provides: A) http://search.ligazakon.ua/l_doc2.nsf/link1/T001500.html " Set on 1 July 1990 in the Ukrainian SSR, the second time zone with the addition of one hour." This page says that Ukraine adopted 2he as standard time on 1 July 1990. One could interpret this that it talks about the timezone being 2he plus one hour. But I do not think it does. I think it means: Standard time moved to 2he, the clock was shifted west by one hour, i.e. one hour was added in the course of transition. (from h3e to h2e, if DST was not in force, or from h4e to h3e, if DST was in force). The statement does not confirm whether DST was in force or not at that data. B) http://search.ligazakon.ua/l_doc2.nsf/link1/KP900272.html states that on 30 Sept 1990, Ukraine did not turn clocks back, but continues to use DST. This implies that DST was indeed in force, at that time. C) http://www.uazakon.com/documents/date_21/pg_iwgdoc.htm states that on 29 September 1991, DST was ended and clocks set back by one hour. My conclusion is: TZ database missed the onset of DST in March 1990, and in consequence, missed its end in September 1991. The goverment document C) clearly states that DST ended in Ukraine on 29 Sept 1991, a date when TZ database says that DTS was not in force. I propose this correction of Europe/Kiev Zone Europe/Kiev 2:02:04 - LMT 1880 2:02:04 - KMT 1924 May 2 # KievMTime 2:00 - EET 1930 Jun 21 3:00 - MSK 1941 Sep 20 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1943 Nov 6 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 Jul 1 2:00 2:00 1:00 EET 1991 Sep 29 3:00 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1995 2:00 EU EE%sT
I missed a 'D' in the proposed line for 1991. It should be Zone Europe/Kiev 2:02:04 - LMT 1880 2:02:04 - KMT 1924 May 2 # KievMTime 2:00 - EET 1930 Jun 21 3:00 - MSK 1941 Sep 20 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1943 Nov 6 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 Jul 1 2:00 2:00 1:00 EEDT 1991 Sep 29 3:00 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1995 2:00 EU EE%sT On 28.02.14 16:27, Alois Treindl wrote:
I propose this correction of Europe/Kiev Zone Europe/Kiev 2:02:04 - LMT 1880 2:02:04 - KMT 1924 May 2 # KievMTime 2:00 - EET 1930 Jun 21 3:00 - MSK 1941 Sep 20 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1943 Nov 6 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 Jul 1 2:00 2:00 1:00 EET 1991 Sep 29 3:00 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1995 2:00 EU EE%sT
I have a further update for Europe/Kiev to report. http://www.uazakon.com/documents/date_8u/pg_grcasa.htm Google translation: --- begin CABINET OF MINISTERS OF UKRAINE REGULATION A N O V A on March 20, 1992 N 139 Kyiv (Decree repealed under Resolution CM N 509 ( 509 -96 -P) on 13.05.96 ) On the order of computation time in Ukraine In pursuance of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine of March 6, 1992 "On introduction in Ukraine Daylight Savings Time" ( 2176-12 ), the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine decrees t a n o l at i is : 1. Approve in Ukraine following the procedure of calculation time : the second time zone ( Kyiv time) on transfer clockwise annually on the last Sunday in March at 2 pm 1 hour ahead in the last week of September at 3:00 1 an hour ago . 2. Establish that: movement by rail, water, air and intercity transport of general use , as well as work long-distance telephone and telegraph lines in the Ukraine at the Moscow time ; calculating ship time at sea conducted by international system time zone . When staying vehicles on roads and ports of other countries use the time that is set there . 3. Oblige ministries and departments of Ukraine , the Council Ministers of the Republic of Crimea, Executive Committee, Kyiv and Sevastopol municipal executive committees to ensure timely development and interventions to move to the calculation of time in order established by this Resolution. 4. To instruct the State Standard of Ukraine : to monitor compliance with established procedure computation time and the organization of work on the evaluation of its effectiveness; informed in advance of the population through the media information on daylight saving time and its abolition. 5. To recognize as invalid: Resolution of the Council of Ministers of the USSR on June 18, 1990 N 134 "On the calculation of time shift in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic" (CL SSR , 1990 , N 6, p. 38); Resolution of the Council of Ministers of the USSR on September 21, 1990 N 272 "On the calculation of time from 30 September 1990" (CL USSR, 1990, N 9 , p. 53); Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine on September 25, 1991 N 225 ( 225 -91 -P) "On the computation time of the September 29, 1991 at territory of Ukraine "( Ukraine FY 1991 , N 10, art. 93). ---- end quote This means that from 1992 on, Ukraine had DST with begin time at 02:00 am, on last SUnday in March, and end time 03:00 am, last Sunday in September. The Google translation above saying '2 pm' is most likely an error. The Urkainian original says 2 годині which mean 2 o'clock. TZ database holds E-Eur rules for 1992 - 1995, which has changes at midnight local time. This is clearly wrong. Introduction of EU-Rules in 1996 -------------------------------- The introduction of EU rules seems to have happened in 1996, not in 1995 as TZ database claims. http://search.ligazakon.ua/l_doc2.nsf/link1/KP960509.html Google translation ----- begin quote CABINET OF MINISTERS OF UKRAINE RESOLUTION on May 13, 1996 N 509 Kyiv On the order of computation time on the territory of Ukraine Given the calculation time operating in Europe since 1996 , the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine resolves: 1. To introduce in Ukraine a method of calculating the time: the second time zone ( Kyiv time) the transfer year -clockwise on the last Sunday of March at 3 pm for 1 hour forward on the last Sunday of October at 4:00 1 hour ago. 2. Establish that: movement by rail, water, air and long-distance transport of general use and operation of long-distance telephone and telegraph communications in Ukraine is carried out by the Moscow time ; calculating ship time at sea conducted by the international system of time zones. When staying vehicles on roads and ports of other countries use the time that is set there . 3. Oblige ministries and departments of Ukraine , the Government of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, regional, Kyiv and Sevastopol city state administrations to ensure timely develop and introduce measures to transition to the calculation of time specified by this Resolution. 4. To direct the State Commission alone time and standard frequency Ukraine : to monitor compliance with the established procedure of calculation time and the organization of work to assess its effectiveness; informed in advance of the population through the media of daylight saving time and its abolition. 5. To recognize as having repealed , Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine of 20 March , 1992 N 139 " On the Procedure for the Calculation of Time in Ukraine " ( Ukraine FY 1992 , N 4 , p. 93). ---------- end quote Note that §5 refers to the earlier quote from 1992, repealing it. This implies that no other regulations had been issued in between. As this cabinet decision is from May 1996, it seems likely that the transition in March 1996, which predates it, was still at 2:00 am and not at 3:00 as would have been under EU rules. This is why I have set the change to EU rules into May 1996, so that the change in March is stil covered by the Ukraine rule. The next change in October 1996 happened under EU rules. I propose the following zone info: Rule Ukraine 1992 1996 - Mar lastSun 2:00 1:00 S Rule Ukraine 1992 1995 - Sep lastSun 3:00 0 - Zone Europe/Kiev 2:02:04 - LMT 1880 2:02:04 - KMT 1924 May 2 # KievMTime 2:00 - EET 1930 Jun 21 3:00 - MSK 1941 Sep 20 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1943 Nov 6 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 Jul 1 2:00 2:00 1:00 EEDT 1991 Sep 29 3:00 2:00 Ukraine EE%sT 1996 May 2:00 EU EE%sT TZ database holds three other zones for Ukraine, Zone Europe/Uzhgorod the most western part, bordering Slovakia, Hungary, Romania Zone Europe/Zaporozhye the most eastern part Zone Europe/Zaporozhye Crimea peninsula I have not yet worked out the consequences for these three zones, as we (me and my US colleague David Cochrane) are still trying to get more information upon these local deviations from Kiev rules. On 28.02.14 16:31, Alois Treindl wrote:
Zone Europe/Kiev 2:02:04 - LMT 1880 2:02:04 - KMT 1924 May 2 # KievMTime 2:00 - EET 1930 Jun 21 3:00 - MSK 1941 Sep 20 1:00 C-Eur CE%sT 1943 Nov 6 3:00 Russia MSK/MSD 1990 Jul 1 2:00 2:00 1:00 EEDT 1991 Sep 29 3:00 2:00 E-Eur EE%sT 1995 2:00 EU EE%sT
Alois Treindl wrote:
2:00 1:00 EEDT 1991 Sep 29 3:00
Thanks, that all looks good, except it should be EEST instead of EEDT for consistency with the rest of the table. I pushed the attached patch to the experimental repository on github and it should appear in the next release.
Whoops, forgot the NEWS entry. Attached.
On 2014-02-28 08:27, Alois Treindl wrote:
In western and Ukrainian astrology circles, there is on ongoing dispute about which timezone was in force in Kiev/Ukraine on the date the parliament decided about its independence, on 24 August 1991.
Mostly, a timezone of GMT +3h is considered correct.
This is in conflict with what TZ database states for that date. ... I have used Google translation to get the content of the links Vladimir provides:
A) http://search.ligazakon.ua/l_doc2.nsf/link1/T001500.html " Set on 1 July 1990 in the Ukrainian SSR, the second time zone with the addition of one hour." This page says that Ukraine adopted 2he as standard time on 1 July 1990. One could interpret this that it talks about the timezone being 2he plus one hour. But I do not think it does. I think it means: Standard time moved to 2he, the clock was shifted west by one hour, i.e. one hour was added in the course of transition. (from h3e to h2e, if DST was not in force, or from h4e to h3e, if DST was in force). The statement does not confirm whether DST was in force or not at that data.
Depends on what "the second time zone" means: relative to UTC, or relative to Russia? Russian time zones can be specified relative to UTC as in tz, relative to Russia (as legislation in some countries is written, sometimes referring instead to their internal "standard meridians"), and relative to Moscow. Russian zones were/are as shown with all three references at: http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/russia/time-zones/index.htm under Russia time zones below the ads on the right, and half way down the body of the page under Russia Standard Time Zones.
On 02.03.14 04:07, Brian Inglis wrote:
Depends on what "the second time zone" means: relative to UTC, or relative to Russia?
I am sure in this context it means GMT + 2h, as this is consistently in all sources I am aware of the standard time of Kiev, since that date. As I cannot understand the Ukrainian language directly, I depend on translation and interpretation. The Russian speakers with whom I have been in contact interpret it the same. The question is only whether DST was in force, and had to be applied in addition to the standard time. For the later government decisions it has been deduced that DST was to be added to the GMT + 2h standard time, introduced on 1 July 1990, making the effective time difference after 1 July 1990 GMT + 3h, for Kiev, and ending that on last Sunday in September 1991. The evidence for that is conclusive.
participants (3)
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Alois Treindl -
Brian Inglis -
Paul Eggert