Re: [tz] TZDB use cases
Stephen Colebourne said:
So, it turns out that there is, I believe, a critical difference here between the US view of timezones and the European one. In the US, timezones do not follow the boundary of the whole country, nor even States. In Europe, by contrast, timezone boundaries are very much driven by country boundaries.
There is another interesting difference. US borders are stable. Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia have split post 1970. Did all the pieces retain the same TZ info? I think small regions on the France/German border changed sides after WW 1. Are there others? Anything similar post 1970? Have any US/state borders changed when rivers changed their course? If so, do any people live in the regions that changed and/or did anything interesting happen there? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.
At least with regard to US states, internal state borders do *not* change when rivers change course. It is my understanding that they do commonly change for international borders, including along the Rio Grande. To my knowledge rivers changing course has never caused a significant change of population, let alone one on a time zone boundary. Jacob Pratt On Tue, Oct 5, 2021, 00:26 Hal Murray via tz <tz@iana.org> wrote:
Stephen Colebourne said:
So, it turns out that there is, I believe, a critical difference here between the US view of timezones and the European one. In the US, timezones do not follow the boundary of the whole country, nor even States. In Europe, by contrast, timezone boundaries are very much driven by country boundaries.
There is another interesting difference. US borders are stable.
Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia have split post 1970. Did all the pieces retain the same TZ info?
I think small regions on the France/German border changed sides after WW 1. Are there others? Anything similar post 1970?
Have any US/state borders changed when rivers changed their course? If so, do any people live in the regions that changed and/or did anything interesting happen there?
-- These are my opinions. I hate spam.
Jacob Pratt via tz said:
At least with regard to US states, internal state borders do *not* change when rivers change course.
My understanding of US law (from a consultant geologist who did this stuff for a living) is that if a river gradually moves, borders (including both properties and administrative areas) move with it. But if there's a catastrophic change - e.g. a heavy storm causes the river to burst a bank and take a new route - then the border does *NOT* move. For a European example, look at the border dispute between Croatia (who claim the cadastral boundary) and Serbia (who claim the thalweg boundary). -- Clive D.W. Feather | If you lie to the compiler, Email: clive@davros.org | it will get its revenge. Web: http://www.davros.org | - Henry Spencer Mobile: +44 7973 377646
Hal Murray via tz said:
I think small regions on the France/German border changed sides after WW 1. Are there others? Anything similar post 1970?
Wikipedia lists: 1972 The United Kingdom formally annexes Rockall (by the Island of Rockall Act 1972, declaring it to be part of Scotland). 1974 After an attempted Greek Cypriot coup sponsored by the Greek military junta of that period, Turkey invades and occupies one-third of Cyprus. 1983 The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is declared but is not recognised by any country except Turkey. 1990 East Germany reunites with West Germany on October 3. Transnistria declares independence from the Moldavian SSR but is not recognised by any country. 1991 Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania restore their independence from Soviet occupation. With the complete dissolution of the Soviet Union, it is split up into a further 12 independent states. Slovenia including the former "zone B" of the Free Territory of Trieste, Croatia, and the Republic of Macedonia all declare their independence from Yugoslavia. 1992 Bosnia and Herzegovina declares independence from Yugoslavia. 1993 Czechoslovakia is dissolved into the Czech Republic and Slovakia. (There were apparently border adjustments made via a 1996 treaty.) 2003 Lithuania's share of Lake Vištytis increases to about 383 ha (about 22% from 2.2 %) from a new border treaty with Russia. 2005 A 115.5-hectare Russian area is swapped for an area in the Meremäe District of Estonia and land in the neighbourhood of the Värska District. 2006 The State Union of Serbia and Montenegro is dissolved; Montenegro and Serbia each become independent states. 2007 Latvia accepts Russia's control over the Pytalovo district in the Pskov region in a new border treaty. 2008 Kosovo unilaterally declares independence from Serbia. 2014 Russia annexes Crimea from Ukraine. 2016 Belgium and the Netherlands swap land near Lanaye and Oost-Maarland over the discovery of a headless body several years prior, which the Belgian authorities could not access without crossing Dutch territory. The border has been straightened out and now runs down the centre of the Meuse River. 2020 "While Nagorno-Karabakh remained an internationally recognised territory of Azerbaijan, the four UN Security Council resolutions, adopted in 1993 and demanding immediate withdrawal of the Armenian occupying forces from all occupied regions of Azerbaijan, remained unfulfilled until 2020. In 2020, a new war erupted in the region, which saw Azerbaijan retake control of most of southern Karabakh (Fuzuli, Jabrayil, Zangilan, Qubadli, Hadrut districts) and parts of north-eastern Karabakh (Talish, Madagiz). A trilateral ceasefire agreement signed on 10 November 2020, ended the war and forced Armenia to return control of all of the remaining territories surrounding Nagorno-Karabakh." I have no idea which, if any, of these involved time changes. -- Clive D.W. Feather | If you lie to the compiler, Email: clive@davros.org | it will get its revenge. Web: http://www.davros.org | - Henry Spencer Mobile: +44 7973 377646
participants (3)
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Clive D.W. Feather -
Hal Murray -
Jacob Pratt