=20
  # This data is by no means authoritative; if you think you know better,

--- 1,4 ----
! # @(#)africa	8.17
  #  =20
  # This data is by no means authoritative; if you think you know better,
***************
*** 453,463 ****
  # year 2008 - 2009 will, therefore, be effective as from 26 October 2008
  # and end on 29 March 2009.
 =20
  # Rule	NAME	FROM	TO	TYPE	IN	ON	AT	SAVE	LETTER/S
  Rule Mauritius	1982	only	-	Oct	10	0:00	1:00	S
  Rule Mauritius	1983	only	-	Mar	21	0:00	0	-
! Rule Mauritius	2008	max	-	Oct	lastSun	2:00	1:00	S
! Rule Mauritius	2009	max	-	Mar	lastSun	2:00	0	-
  # Zone	NAME		GMTOFF	RULES	FORMAT	[UNTIL]
  Zone Indian/Mauritius	3:50:00 -	LMT	1907		# Port Louis
  			4:00 Mauritius	MU%sT	# Mauritius Time
--- 453,471 ----
  # year 2008 - 2009 will, therefore, be effective as from 26 October 2008
  # and end on 29 March 2009.
 =20
+ # From Ed Maste (2008-10-07):
+ # THE TIME BILL (No. XXVII of 2008) Explanatory Memorandum states the
+ # beginning / ending of summer time is 2 o'clock standard time in the
+ # morning of the last Sunday of October / last Sunday of March.
+ # 
+ # http://www.gov.mu/portal/goc/assemblysite/file/bill2708.pdf
+ # 
+=20
  # Rule	NAME	FROM	TO	TYPE	IN	ON	AT	SAVE	LETTER/S
  Rule Mauritius	1982	only	-	Oct	10	0:00	1:00	S
  Rule Mauritius	1983	only	-	Mar	21	0:00	0	-
! Rule Mauritius	2008	max	-	Oct	lastSun	2:00s	1:00	S
! Rule Mauritius	2009	max	-	Mar	lastSun	2:00s	0	-
  # Zone	NAME		GMTOFF	RULES	FORMAT	[UNTIL]
  Zone Indian/Mauritius	3:50:00 -	LMT	1907		# Port Louis
  			4:00 Mauritius	MU%sT	# Mauritius Time

------- asia -------
*** /tmp/geta29775	Wed Oct  8 08:46:31 2008
--- /tmp/getb29775	Wed Oct  8 08:46:31 2008
***************
*** 1,4 ****
! # @(#)asia	8.23
  #  =20
  # This data is by no means authoritative; if you think you know better,
--- 1,4 ----
! # @(#)asia	8.24
  #  =20
  # This data is by no means authoritative; if you think you know better,
***************
*** 1957,1964 ****
  # compilers can't handle  or having multiple Rules (a la Israel).
  # For now, use "Apr Fri>=3D1", and go with IATA on a uniform Sep 30 end.
 =20
  Rule	Syria	2008	max	-	Apr	Fri>=3D1	0:00	1:00	S
! Rule	Syria	2008	max	-	Oct	1	0:00	0	-
 =20
  # Zone	NAME		GMTOFF	RULES	FORMAT	[UNTIL]
  Zone	Asia/Damascus	2:25:12 -	LMT	1920	# Dimashq
--- 1957,1976 ----
  # compilers can't handle  or having multiple Rules (a la Israel).
  # For now, use "Apr Fri>=3D1", and go with IATA on a uniform Sep 30 end.
 =20
+ # From Steffen Thorsen (2008-10-07):
+ # Syria has now officially decided to end DST on 2008-11-01 this year,
+ # according to the following article in the Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA).
+ #
+ # The article is in Arabic, and seems to tell that they will go back to
+ # winter time on 2008-11-01 at 00:00 local daylight time (delaying/setting
+ # clocks back 60 minutes).
+ #
+ # 
+ # http://sana.sy/ara/2/2008/10/07/195459.htm
+ # 
+=20
  Rule	Syria	2008	max	-	Apr	Fri>=3D1	0:00	1:00	S
! Rule	Syria	2008	max	-	Nov	1	0:00	0	-
 =20
  # Zone	NAME		GMTOFF	RULES	FORMAT	[UNTIL]
  Zone	Asia/Damascus	2:25:12 -	LMT	1920	# Dimashq

------- southamerica -------
*** /tmp/geta29794	Wed Oct  8 08:46:31 2008
--- /tmp/getb29794	Wed Oct  8 08:46:31 2008
***************
*** 1,4 ****
! # @(#)southamerica	8.29
  #  =20
  # This data is by no means authoritative; if you think you know better,
--- 1,4 ----
! # @(#)southamerica	8.30
  #  =20
  # This data is by no means authoritative; if you think you know better,
***************
*** 177,182 ****
--- 177,198 ----
  # http://www.impulsobaires.com.ar/nota.php?id=3D57832 (in spanish)
  # 
 =20
+ # From Rodrigo Severo (2008-10-06):
+ # Here is some info available at a Gentoo bug related to TZ on Argentina's =
DST:
+ # ...
+ # ------- Comment #1 from [jmdocile]  2008-10-06 16:28 0000 -------
+ # Hi, there is a problem with timezone-data-2008e and maybe with
+ # timezone-data-2008f
+ # Argentinian law [Number] 25.155 is no longer valid.
+ # 
+ # http://www.infoleg.gov.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/60000-64999/60036/norma.=
htm
+ # 
+ # The new one is law [Number] 26.350
+ # 
+ # http://www.infoleg.gov.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/135000-139999/136191/nor=
ma.htm
+ # 
+ # So there is no summer time in Argentina for now.
+=20
  Rule	Arg	2007	only	-	Dec	30	0:00	1:00	S
  Rule	Arg	2008	max	-	Mar	Sun>=3D15	0:00	0	-
  Rule	Arg	2008	max	-	Oct	Sun>=3D15	0:00	1:00	S

------- zone.tab -------
*** /tmp/geta29813	Wed Oct  8 08:46:32 2008
--- /tmp/getb29813	Wed Oct  8 08:46:32 2008
***************
*** 1,4 ****
! # @(#)zone.tab	8.18
  #
  # TZ zone descriptions
  #
--- 1,4 ----
! # @(#)zone.tab	8.19
  #
  # TZ zone descriptions
  #
***************
*** 293,299 ****
  NO	+5955+01045	Europe/Oslo
  NP	+2743+08519	Asia/Katmandu
  NR	-0031+16655	Pacific/Nauru
! NU	-1901+16955	Pacific/Niue
  NZ	-3652+17446	Pacific/Auckland	most locations
  NZ	-4357-17633	Pacific/Chatham	Chatham Islands
  OM	+2336+05835	Asia/Muscat
--- 293,299 ----
  NO	+5955+01045	Europe/Oslo
  NP	+2743+08519	Asia/Katmandu
  NR	-0031+16655	Pacific/Nauru
! NU	-1901-16955	Pacific/Niue
  NZ	-3652+17446	Pacific/Auckland	most locations
  NZ	-4357-17633	Pacific/Chatham	Chatham Islands
  OM	+2336+05835	Asia/Muscat

--===============5595098311674596183==--


From nicolas.alvarez@gmail.com Wed Oct  8 09:40:36 2008
From: Nicolas Alvarez 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 10:40:26 -0300
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: <200810081250.m98CoYwg029833@lecserver.nci.nih.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1169201300488033450=="

--===============1169201300488033450==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Arthur David Olson wrote:
>   Rule        Arg     2007    only    -       Dec     30      0:00    1:00 =
   S
>   Rule        Arg     2008    max     -       Mar     Sun>=3D15 0:00    0  =
     -
>   Rule        Arg     2008    max     -       Oct     Sun>=3D15 0:00    1:0=
0    S

Why is there a rule for Oct 2008* if there is nothing officially known?

* at least that's what it looks like; I don't really understand the tz file
format


--===============1169201300488033450==--


From olsona@dc37a.nci.nih.gov Wed Oct  8 11:08:03 2008
From: "Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E]" 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:07:23 -0400
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2131571832573673906=="

--===============2131571832573673906==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Why is there a rule for Oct 2008* if there is nothing officially known?

The rule reflects the sense that Argentina is likelier than not to observe DS=
T, even though nothing is officially known. As indicated in the proposed chan=
ge letter, there'll be a further update if Argentina does something different=
 than what's now in the Rules.

Some folks may want to wait on tzdata2008i.tar.gz.

        --ado


--===============2131571832573673906==--


From nicolas.alvarez@gmail.com Wed Oct  8 12:27:35 2008
From: Nicolas Alvarez 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:22:49 -0300
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1762323979430433459=="

--===============1762323979430433459==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] wrote:
>> Why is there a rule for Oct 2008* if there is nothing officially known?
> 
> The rule reflects the sense that Argentina is likelier than not to observe
> DST, even though nothing is officially known. As indicated in the proposed
> change letter, there'll be a further update if Argentina does something
> different than what's now in the Rules.

So basically the current tzdata has a *guess* at when it *might* be.

As you probably know, many operating systems had their time wrong last week
because tzdata said DST would start on the 5th. Ubuntu took days to update
the tzdata since the report. The current package says it will start on the
19th.

If the government doesn't say *anything* about DST, what will you do? Change
the rules on the 18th to remove the DST? Do you know how much time it will
take for all distros to have it? Definitely more than a day, so on the 19th
we'll have the same mess again.


--===============1762323979430433459==--


From derick@php.net Wed Oct  8 12:52:39 2008
From: derick@php.net
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 18:51:58 +0200
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3995750607747039005=="

--===============3995750607747039005==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] wrote:
> >> Why is there a rule for Oct 2008* if there is nothing officially known?
> > 
> > The rule reflects the sense that Argentina is likelier than not to observe
> > DST, even though nothing is officially known. As indicated in the proposed
> > change letter, there'll be a further update if Argentina does something
> > different than what's now in the Rules.
> 
> So basically the current tzdata has a *guess* at when it *might* be.
> 
> As you probably know, many operating systems had their time wrong last week
> because tzdata said DST would start on the 5th. Ubuntu took days to update
> the tzdata since the report. The current package says it will start on the
> 19th.
> 
> If the government doesn't say *anything* about DST, what will you do? Change
> the rules on the 18th to remove the DST? Do you know how much time it will
> take for all distros to have it? Definitely more than a day, so on the 19th
> we'll have the same mess again.

I would have to agree with that - it would be better *not* to have the 
rule for switching to DST in 2008 in there at all to prevent confusion 
when people update to the new 2008h and their clocks switch incorrectly 
on the 19th. 

regards,
Derick

-- 
HEAD before 5_3!: http://tinyurl.com/6d2esb
http://derickrethans.nl | http://ezcomponents.org | http://xdebug.org

--===============3995750607747039005==--


From ezcolombo@gmail.com Wed Oct  8 13:19:07 2008
From: Ezequiel Colombo 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:18:49 +0000
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1861078746604983094=="

--===============1861078746604983094==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

  php.net> writes:

>=20
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>=20
> > Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E] wrote:
> > >> Why is there a rule for Oct 2008* if there is nothing officially known?
> > >=20
> > > The rule reflects the sense that Argentina is likelier than not to=20
observe
> > > DST, even though nothing is officially known. As indicated in the=20
proposed
> > > change letter, there'll be a further update if Argentina does something
> > > different than what's now in the Rules.
> >=20
> > So basically the current tzdata has a *guess* at when it *might* be.
> >=20
> > As you probably know, many operating systems had their time wrong last we=
ek
> > because tzdata said DST would start on the 5th. Ubuntu took days to update
> > the tzdata since the report. The current package says it will start on the
> > 19th.
> >=20
> > If the government doesn't say *anything* about DST, what will you do?=20
Change
> > the rules on the 18th to remove the DST? Do you know how much time it will
> > take for all distros to have it? Definitely more than a day, so on the 19=
th
> > we'll have the same mess again.
>=20
> I would have to agree with that - it would be better *not* to have the=20
> rule for switching to DST in 2008 in there at all to prevent confusion=20
> when people update to the new 2008h and their clocks switch incorrectly=20
> on the 19th.=20
>=20
> regards,
> Derick
>=20

I strongly agree with Nicolas, the event last week was caused by a previous=20
*guess* as you can see here (http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz/2015=
)=20
and has been causing several problems in our systems these days. Our governme=
nt=20
hasn't released any new law describing DST for this year so there isn's any=20
reason to include 2008 (and future) Rules for Argentina.

In my case i haven't included the '08s Rule in my tzdata last year, but i'm=20
using some JAVA software that has included it in their tzupdater tool. Now i =

have to wait for a fixed tzdata and then wait for SUN to release the tzupdate=
r=20
tool including that tzdata.

Please do not make the same mistake twice, the rules should be based on laws =
or=20
formal government announcements.

Thanks
ezequiel




--===============1861078746604983094==--


From vkhare@cisco.com Wed Oct  8 22:00:38 2008
From: "Vilas Khare (vkhare)" 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Official site for Australia Timezones 
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:00:28 -0700
Message-ID:
 <3EB92CE65B3E2041A778B01798F53B230709DF@xmb-sjc-23b.amer.cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3590360291165000604=="

--===============3590360291165000604==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello,

What is the official site for Australian time zone and recent DST changes ? 

Vilas
--



--===============3590360291165000604==--


From hancock@mmsi.com Wed Oct  8 22:06:23 2008
From: Tony Hancock 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: RE: Official site for Australia Timezones 
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:06:12 -0700
Message-ID:
 <952421AFE728314596730ABF4DBB77B00468E0EDF6@TUCEXCH01.vpn.mmsi.com>
In-Reply-To:
 <3EB92CE65B3E2041A778B01798F53B230709DF@xmb-sjc-23b.amer.cisco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2799921886436217283=="

--===============2799921886436217283==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.australia.gov.au/Time

-----Original Message-----
From: Vilas Khare (vkhare) [mailto:vkhare@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, 9 October 2008 1:00 PM
To: tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov
Subject: Official site for Australia Timezones

Hello,

What is the official site for Australian time zone and recent DST changes ?

Vilas
--




--===============2799921886436217283==--


From eulevik@gmail.com Wed Oct  8 22:11:42 2008
From: Eric Ulevik 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Official site for Australia Timezones
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:11:41 +1200
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To:
 <3EB92CE65B3E2041A778B01798F53B230709DF@xmb-sjc-23b.amer.cisco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8398718914826142415=="

--===============8398718914826142415==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 2:00 PM, Vilas Khare (vkhare)  wrote:
> What is the official site for Australian time zone and recent DST changes ?

There isn't a single official site. Each state legislates time separately.

I sent links with the legislation covering the recent change to this
mailing list:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz/1897/

Regards,

Eric Ulevik

--===============8398718914826142415==--


From david@dlg.com.au Wed Oct  8 22:28:56 2008
From: David Grosz 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: RE: Official site for Australia Timezones 
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:28:43 +1100
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To:
 <3EB92CE65B3E2041A778B01798F53B230709DF@xmb-sjc-23b.amer.cisco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1521590340813462497=="

--===============1521590340813462497==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Vilas,

 

There is one site that indicates historically when Daylight Saving has
started and finished since it began up until the current Daylight Saving
period.  The site is:
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/dst_times.shtml.

 

Another site that indicates current Daylight Saving rules is:
http://australia.gov.au/Time.  This website only indicates there are three
timezones in Australia (not taking into account that no Daylight Saving
exists in Northern Territory or Queensland which would create an additional
two timezones during Daylight Saving.  However, this site fails to mention
Central West Standard Time (ACWST) which sits 45 minutes ahead of AWST and
45 minutes behind ACST and Lord Howe Island Standard Time (ALHST) which sits
40 minutes ahead of AEST.  Both these timezones also have Daylight Saving
Time at the same period as Western Australia and NSW (ACT, SA, TAS, VIC)
respectively.

 

I hope this answers what you are after.

 

Kind Regards,

David Grosz

Sydney, NSW, Australia

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Vilas Khare (vkhare) [mailto:vkhare@cisco.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 October 2008 1:00 PM
To: tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov
Subject: Official site for Australia Timezones 

 

Hello,

 

What is the official site for Australian time zone and recent DST changes ? 

 

Vilas

--

 

 




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From vkhare@cisco.com Wed Oct  8 22:31:47 2008
From: "Vilas Khare (vkhare)" 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: RE: Official site for Australia Timezones
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:31:41 -0700
Message-ID:
 <3EB92CE65B3E2041A778B01798F53B230709F1@xmb-sjc-23b.amer.cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4563483529195944076=="

--===============4563483529195944076==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you Eric.=20

How does one keep informed about upcoming time zone and DST/STD rule changes =
for various countries ?  We have a in-house application that needs to convert=
 local time to/from UTC for users around the globe and thus need to keep trac=
k of when DST begins/ends for each time zone.  We use ISO std. time zone conv=
entions (ex. America/Los_Angeles, Australia/Melbourne etc).=20

Vilas
-- =20

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Ulevik [mailto:eulevik@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:12 PM
To: tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov
Cc: tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov
Subject: Re: Official site for Australia Timezones

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 2:00 PM, Vilas Khare (vkhare)  wrote:
> What is the official site for Australian time zone and recent DST changes ?

There isn't a single official site. Each state legislates time separately.

I sent links with the legislation covering the recent change to this mailing =
list:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz/1897/

Regards,

Eric Ulevik



--===============4563483529195944076==--


From eulevik@gmail.com Wed Oct  8 22:41:46 2008
From: Eric Ulevik 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Official site for Australia Timezones
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:41:45 +1200
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To:
 <3EB92CE65B3E2041A778B01798F53B230709F1@xmb-sjc-23b.amer.cisco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0006935827572370934=="

--===============0006935827572370934==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Vilas Khare (vkhare)  wrote:
> Thank you Eric.
> How does one keep informed about upcoming time zone and DST/STD rule change=
s for various countries ?  We have a in-house application that needs to conve=
rt local time to/from UTC for users around the globe and thus need to keep tr=
ack of when DST begins/ends for each time zone.  We use ISO std. time zone co=
nventions (ex. America/Los_Angeles, Australia/Melbourne etc).

This mailing list, and the regular database releases, is the best way
I know of keeping track.

If you are not using the database, a good overview to get started is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoneinfo

Regards,

Eric Ulevik

--===============0006935827572370934==--


From guy@alum.mit.edu Wed Oct  8 22:53:44 2008
From: Guy Harris 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Official site for Australia Timezones
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:53:42 -0700
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To:
 <3EB92CE65B3E2041A778B01798F53B230709F1@xmb-sjc-23b.amer.cisco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1819252656136735543=="

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On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:31 PM, Vilas Khare (vkhare) wrote:

> How does one keep informed about upcoming time zone and DST/STD rule  
> changes for various countries ?  We have a in-house application that  
> needs to convert local time to/from UTC for users around the globe  
> and thus need to keep track of when DST begins/ends for each time  
> zone.  We use ISO std. time zone conventions (ex. America/ 
> Los_Angeles, Australia/Melbourne etc).

I don't think there's an ISO standard for those time zone names -  
unless somebody standardized them in some official document, they're  
just the convention used by the current version of the Olson time zone  
database (and I think at least some systems using that database might  
not use that convention, e.g. Solaris).

As for keeping informed, that depends on what "keeping informed" means:

	if it means keeping absolutely up-to-the-minute about time zone  
rules, the only way to do that is to find out where various countries  
- or regions of countries - post notices about time zone rules, and  
monitor those sources;

	if it means keeping "reasonably" up-to-date, following this list, and  
picking up updates to the Olson database, would work;

	if it means keeping as up-to-date as the vendors of the OSes on which  
your application runs keep those OSes up to date, the application  
could use whatever APIs and databases the OSes use (not all of them  
use the Olson database - *most* UN*Xes do, but I don't think HP-UX  
does, and Windows definitely doesn't).

--===============1819252656136735543==--


From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Thu Oct  9 08:50:01 2008
From: Robert Elz 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria) 
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 19:48:36 +0700
Message-ID: <7795.1223556516@epsilon.noi.kre.to>
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0865444943598238470=="

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    Date:        Wed, 08 Oct 2008 13:22:49 -0300
    From:        Nicolas Alvarez 
    Message-ID:  

  | So basically the current tzdata has a *guess* at when it *might* be.

Everything in tzdata that claims to indicate what will happen in the
future is a guess as to what might happen.   How can it be otherwise?

Unless the timezone code says nothing at all about times from the date
of its creation (that is from the reeast time of each tzdata update - so
the "date" command on your system would always give the current time in UTC)
it cannot really do otherwise.   None of is is able to predict the future
with certainty, all we can ever do is guess.

Now some of the guesses are ones we can be reasonably confident about, like
when summer time will end in the US this year, others are  total speculation
as we get no data at all on what is happening, and many others are
somewhere in between - but they are all guesses, and if we were required to
avoid using any guesses (predictions) at all the whole thing would be a
disaster.

  | As you probably know, many operating systems had their time wrong last we=
ek
  | because tzdata said DST would start on the 5th. Ubuntu took days to update
  | the tzdata since the report. The current package says it will start on the
  | 19th.

Yes, we try hard to get the best information we can, and make the most
reliable estimations of what is likely to happen, and most of the time
things work out the way we'd like.   Sometimes they don't.  What really
matters is the accuracy of the information that we can obtain, and how
early that information reaches us.   We know there are places where
summer time rules seem to be decided upon a whim the day before the event,
but I suspect that most of this is just perception - things like airline
timetables for international flights cannot simply be changed with a
day's notice.   So what is most likely the problem is just that the informati=
on
is not getting through, rather than it does not exist.

That is, I am reasonably confident that there are people in Argentina
who really know whether summer time will start Oct 19 this year or not,
and if not, when (if at all.)   The issue is getting that information from
the people who know and to the people who maintain tzdata.   Someone who
cares needs to do that, this year, and in the future (until perhaps things
stabilise and there are less surprises.)

  | If the government doesn't say *anything* about DST,

Why would they not?   That is, if asked?   If no-one bothers to ask,
that's a different issue, that is is you just sit passively and hope to
be informed, but why not go out and ask???

That's what I asked for in an earlier message - no-one seems to have
done anything (beyond speculating.)

  | what will you do? Change the rules on the 18th to remove the DST?

No, because on the 18th we still will not know one way or the other, on
this assumption (that no-one bothers to find out in advance.)   What would
happen is that on the 19th we will find out what actually happened, and if
we were wrong, we will correct it then.

That's obviously not ideal, but if no-one is going to say any more than
"I haven't heard anything yet" then what choice is there?   The reason you
aren't hearing anything may be because they assume you already know from
earlier announcements (the actual "prepare to change your clocks" messages
usually only start appearing a day or two before the actual event, even in
places with very stable summer time rules.)

Note here that no-one simply decided that Oct 5, and then Oct 19,
would be good days to screw with the Argentinian people.  They came
from the most reliable information we have been able to find so far.

The legislation that said summer time would start in Oct was last
December, so it cannot reasonably have meant Oct 2007, it must have
meant 2008.   It has been suggested that that legislation has been
repealed, if so, find some authoritative source - ie: get someone who
really knows to say something (and ideally a reference to some official
doc, if it is available on the net, even better) and send that.   Then
we will have more up to date, and reliable information, and the rules
will get updated (well, actually that's a guess too, as that's also in
the future, but it has always happened in the past...)

  | Do you know how much time it will take for all distros to have it?
  | Definitely more than a day, so on the 19th
  | we'll have the same mess again.

Yes.   Unfortunately.   Unless someone actually does the work to get
better information that's what is going to happen (assuming summer time=20
does not start on the 19th, at the minute that seems more likely than
other scenarios).

kre


--===============0865444943598238470==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Thu Oct  9 09:15:33 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:15:27 -0300
Message-ID: <48EE03EF.6010107@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8312030131579751888=="

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
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Ezequiel Colombo escribi=C3=B3 el 08/10/08 14:18:
> I strongly agree with Nicolas, the event last week was caused by a previous=
=20
> *guess* as you can see here (http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz/20=
15)=20
> and has been causing several problems in our systems these days. Our govern=
ment=20
> hasn't released any new law describing DST for this year so there isn's any=
=20
> reason to include 2008 (and future) Rules for Argentina.
>
> In my case i haven't included the '08s Rule in my tzdata last year, but i'm=
=20
> using some JAVA software that has included it in their tzupdater tool. Now =
i=20
> have to wait for a fixed tzdata and then wait for SUN to release the tzupda=
ter=20
> tool including that tzdata.
>
> Please do not make the same mistake twice, the rules should be based on law=
s or=20
> formal government announcements.
>  =20
Hi folks... sorry 'bout me being silent so long... I have some personal
problems (added to the fact that I also work for a living, which I guess
Olsen, Eggert, Elz and most people on this list also do)...

Let's put a couple of things in perspective...

For starters, I had the same problem as most sysadmins in Argentina
since I use the standard debian/ubuntu upgrades and tzdata2008f had not
been installed in my machines by last Sunday (see my post -in Spanish-
at http://clueless.com.ar/articles/que-hora-es).

As Ezequiel notes, tzdata updates take some time to find its way into
different unix distros, let alone java (and maybe other) runtime /
development environments... and in most unixes, at least an average
sysadmin always has a way to dowload the current tzcode/tzdata and have
it up to date, I don't think an average developer is able to download
the current tzdata and generate a working jre that inlcudes it.

Nicol=C3=A1s is in part right than given our government's lazyness
(stupidty?) in not defining this with a reasonable prevision (6 months
seems reasonable to me), in that from the sysamdin pov it'd be better to
not put *any* dst rule until there's an official decree (note that there
actually *is* a Law, from December, and it's so stupid that instead of
puting a clear rule for changing dst and allowing it to be modified by
the Executive Branch, it forces the Executive to pass a decree *every
year*).

Most sysadmins in Argentina (me included) were not thinking about dst
last week because nothing was spoken about it in the media or anywhere
else and we definitively don't have a tradition of /regular/ dst
changes, (I can't seem to understand why).

All of us raised tickets in our distros' bug trackers... in some cases
pointing at simply the need for an upstream sync, in other cases without
any clue as for where the problem is (that's ok, most of the time I
raise a case, I don't have a clue of where the problem is, or if it is
distro-specific or upstream or whatever)... some distro maintainers got
accused of having false data (even after the update to 2008f/g, because
of the tentative Oct-19 change) and some of them pointed their fingers
here...

Anyway, shouting at distro and tzdata maintainers and pointing fingers
won't do any good...

What we can do is to discuss what is the best strategy for updating
tzdata in the lack of oficial data... in order to do this, we must put
in perspective what tzdata is and what its maintainers do...

1) I am nobody here... I don't maintain anything and nobody called me or
elected me to do anything... I am just a simple tzdata user who lives in
Argentina and in the past I've been indirectly responsible for the
administration of a few important servers where I thought it was
important to have the date and timezone correct.

2) If I understand it correctly, Arthur David Olson is the official
maintainer of tzcode and tzdata... I suspect (but I don't know or care)
that he was kind of self-appointed or was appointed by his employer
(which, for his mail address, I guess is the National Cancer Institute
in the USA). I understand he is the main coder here...

3) For what I've seen, Paul Eggert is somehow the "database master" of
tzdata (maybe the one who is more fluent with it?) and does most of the
editing (I guess it is also somehow self-appointed).

4) I've seen Robert Elz here for years... I don't know if he has an
offiical role in tzcode/tzdata, but he always participates in the
mailing list, with opinion about code bugs, database information and policy.

5) Through the last 7 years that I've been subscribed to the list
('thought the list is much older than that), these three people and
many, many more have worked for me for free on demand... Whenever I
found I needed to change data in the database (because there would be a
change in Argentina which wasn't there), I simply had to find some
reasonable source for it and explain in plain English what the change
would be, Paul would translate my words into tzdatese giving me a patch
that I could apply immediatly and David would publish it a few days
later... and all for a nice and simple "thank you guys" here and
there... I know, they had side-benefits, because now they have 2 grains
of my little knowledge sand in their information dune, but they didn't
especially needed it since, sooner or later one of them would've found
out somewhere that Argentina would change its timezone rules that year.

6) I know David and Paul would like to have more up to date information
about Argentina, but my daily problems make me quite ungrateful to them
so I come here only when I want and don't participate on a regular basis
(and in spite of that, they keep working for me)... every know and then
another Argentinian stops by... sometimes with information, sometimes
only to complain about wrong data (this happens with people from
everywhere, I'm just being local about a country which hasn't many
people participating in this list)... I know David and Paul would also
like /them/ to participate more, but they don't complain, so let's not
complain about wrong data, but only point it out (so they can fix it for
us... again, free of charge).


And now for what we can do: We could keep our policy of "informated
guess" (the most informators, the better the guess) and risk having the
problems that happened last Sunday... the other policy would be "wait
and see" which might have worked better this time, but I am not sure.

As for the problem that Ezequiel poses (about java's tzdata
implementation)... I don't program in java (nor any other language, for
that matter) but, as I stated above, I don't know if Joe Average Java is
able to generate by himself a jre or jdk or whatever that be given an
updated tzdata file or if he has to wait for Sun to publish a patch or
release or something...

In the later case, my guess is that the "guess and publish soon" policy
in the long rung will work better... question... when the Law 26.350 was
published on December 28th, 2007 ruling a dst change at 0:00 December
30th (that is less than 48 hours in advance)... how long it took to have
the java timezones right?

I think we should keep the current policy (though we *should* keep
discussing it and the discussion may make me change my opinion).


Anyway... I just heard on the radio that *apparently* dst *would* change
in Argentina next Sunday (so 2008f/g *would* be valid)... I didn't find
official info about it, but I'll try to look for it later today.

Regards.

--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
I am a Marxist--of the Groucho tendency.
        Anonymous, French slogan
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


--===============8312030131579751888==--


From aurelien@aurel32.net Thu Oct  9 09:16:03 2008
From: Aurelien Jarno 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:16:00 +0200
Message-ID: <20081009131600.GE17972@hall.aurel32.net>
In-Reply-To: <7795.1223556516@epsilon.noi.kre.to>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2949460336865179701=="

--===============2949460336865179701==
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On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 07:48:36PM +0700, Robert Elz wrote:
>   | what will you do? Change the rules on the 18th to remove the DST?
> 
> No, because on the 18th we still will not know one way or the other, on
> this assumption (that no-one bothers to find out in advance.)   What would
> happen is that on the 19th we will find out what actually happened, and if
> we were wrong, we will correct it then.

If the prediction is false like for the 5th, then the lambda Argentinian 
user will be screwed once more. And then you can try to continue making
guesses to screw them more.

OTOH keeping the winter time you will screw the user only once if the
change is not made fast enough. Moreover the user will expect a problem
the day of the DST change, so nothing too dramatic. 

> That's obviously not ideal, but if no-one is going to say any more than
> "I haven't heard anything yet" then what choice is there?   The reason you
> aren't hearing anything may be because they assume you already know from
> earlier announcements (the actual "prepare to change your clocks" messages
> usually only start appearing a day or two before the actual event, even in
> places with very stable summer time rules.)
> 
> Note here that no-one simply decided that Oct 5, and then Oct 19,
> would be good days to screw with the Argentinian people.  They came
> from the most reliable information we have been able to find so far.

Maybe no one want that, but that's actually what happens... This can be
avoided (see above).


-- 
  .''`.  Aurelien Jarno	            | GPG: 1024D/F1BCDB73
 : :' :  Debian developer           | Electrical Engineer
 `. `'   aurel32@debian.org         | aurelien@aurel32.net
   `-    people.debian.org/~aurel32 | www.aurel32.net

--===============2949460336865179701==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Thu Oct  9 09:49:38 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:49:33 -0300
Message-ID: <48EE0BED.8030808@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <7795.1223556516@epsilon.noi.kre.to>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--===============0219788938527528993==
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Robert Elz escribi=C3=B3 el 09/10/08 09:48:
> Yes, we try hard to get the best information we can, and make the most
> reliable estimations of what is likely to happen, and most of the time
> things work out the way we'd like.   Sometimes they don't.  What really
> matters is the accuracy of the information that we can obtain, and how
> early that information reaches us.   We know there are places where
> summer time rules seem to be decided upon a whim the day before the event,
> but I suspect that most of this is just perception - things like airline
> timetables for international flights cannot simply be changed with a
> day's notice.   So what is most likely the problem is just that the informa=
tion
> is not getting through, rather than it does not exist.
>
> That is, I am reasonably confident that there are people in Argentina
> who really know whether summer time will start Oct 19 this year or not,
> and if not, when (if at all.)   The issue is getting that information from
> the people who know and to the people who maintain tzdata.   Someone who
> cares needs to do that, this year, and in the future (until perhaps things
> stabilise and there are less surprises.)
>  =20
Well... you'd be surprised about this... but this seems to be the way
National Policy is done in Argentina (and it's not something specific
about the current authorities, I've seen this happen year after year,
government after government from the 1990's up to now)

>   | If the government doesn't say *anything* about DST,
>
> Why would they not?   That is, if asked?   If no-one bothers to ask,
> that's a different issue, that is is you just sit passively and hope to
> be informed, but why not go out and ask???
>
> That's what I asked for in an earlier message - no-one seems to have
> done anything (beyond speculating.)
>  =20
Whenever that is true for me (that is *I* didn't take the time -this
time- to find out further away than google), I was interviewed yesterday
from someone from a major newspaper who's been contacting people in
different relevant offices of the Executive Branch and noone had a clue
about it...

Anyway, for what I read in
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=3D1057552&pid=3D5188890&toi=3D6279
finally yesterday de President decided to go on with the DST change next
Sunday (so 2008f and 2008g are right about it)... I didn't find the
official information yet... the "Bolet=C3=ADn Oficial" has nothing about it
today
(http://www.boletinoficial.gov.ar/Bora.Portal/?seccion=3D1&rubro=3DLegislacio=
n)
and neither has the "Servicio de Hidrograf=C3=ADa Naval" updated its
published table
(http://www.hidro.gov.ar/Observatorio/QueHoraUtiliza.asp#USOS%20HORARIOS%20AD=
OPTADOS%20EN%20LA%20REPUBLICA%20ARGENTINA)


--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future.
        Niels Bohr
        Danish physicist (1885 - 1962)
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

--===============0219788938527528993==--


From kre@munnari.OZ.AU Thu Oct  9 13:11:44 2008
From: Robert Elz 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria) 
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 00:10:38 +0700
Message-ID: <8982.1223572238@epsilon.noi.kre.to>
In-Reply-To: <48EE0BED.8030808@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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    Date:        Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:49:33 -0300
    From:        Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
    Message-ID:  <48EE0BED.8030808@baby.com.ar>

  | Anyway, for what I read in
  | http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1057552&pid=5188890&toi=6279
  | finally yesterday de President decided to go on with the DST change next
  | Sunday (so 2008f and 2008g are right about it)...

So you mean the 19th ?  (next Sunday to me would be the 12th - though I
appreciate that not everyone treats those words that way)

kre



--===============8633603187963532998==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Thu Oct  9 14:20:35 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:20:33 -0300
Message-ID: <48EE4B71.6040607@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <8982.1223572238@epsilon.noi.kre.to>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3003287455448723406=="

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Robert Elz escribió el 09/10/08 14:10:
>     Date:        Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:49:33 -0300
>     From:        Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
>     Message-ID:  <48EE0BED.8030808@baby.com.ar>
>
>   | Anyway, for what I read in
>   | http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1057552&pid=5188890&toi=6279
>   | finally yesterday de President decided to go on with the DST change next
>   | Sunday (so 2008f and 2008g are right about it)...
>
> So you mean the 19th ?  (next Sunday to me would be the 12th - though I
> appreciate that not everyone treats those words that way)
>   
Yeah... I mean the 19th... consider "next" as a mistake of not knowing 
where or /when/ I'm living in... sorry 'bout the confussion.

-- 
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
on top-posting...

 > Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
 > > Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 > > > Top-posting.
 > > > > What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

TOPIC: Posting Etiquette
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


--===============3003287455448723406==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Thu Oct  9 16:18:15 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:18:13 -0300
Message-ID: <48EE6705.4060701@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <48EE4B71.6040607@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well... besides the news in this morning's printed edition of "La=20
Naci=C3=B3n" (http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=3D1057552) I sent=20
earlier, now "Clar=C3=ADn" (the other major newspaper here) said 3 hours ago =

in its electronic edition=20
(http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/10/09/um/m-01777946.htm) the same=20
information, adding that "*In the coming days*, president Cristina=20
Fern=C3=A1ndez de Kirchner will sign the decree that mandates forwarding the =

clocks between October 19th and March 14th, 2009(...)" so far for timely=20
legislation...

The on-line edition of "La Naci=C3=B3n" also states=20
(http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=3D1057701) that the Province=20
of Mendoza will *not* adhere to the DST change this year and that other=20
Provinces may follow it in the decision.

In fact, a few days ago, the Governor of Mendoza sent a Provincial Law=20
Project to the Province Legislature saying that the Province will not=20
change the time even if the Nation does=20
(http://www.cuyonoticias.com.ar/index.php/politica/1034-mendoza-seguira-la-ho=
ra-qpuntanaq.html).

So Mendoza is actually being more timely than the Federal Government.

Maybe we should modify 'southamerica' to note this...

Now, in the complete speculation game, my personal guess is that at=20
least San Luis will also stay in UTC-03:00 and not apply DST... I dunno=20
about other provinces.

According to the above article from "La Naci=C3=B3n", Provinces which might=20
not adhere (besides Mendoza and San Luis), include Tucum=C3=A1n, Catamarca=20
and San Juan...

Worst thing is that I can't seem to find reliable sources other than the=20
press... and for Provincial matters, the National media are not that=20
trustworthy...

Regards.


--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
I haven't lost my mind, I have it backed up on
tape somewhere.
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


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From baby@baby.com.ar Tue Oct 14 22:28:05 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:27:57 -0300
Message-ID: <48F5552D.90505@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <48EE6705.4060701@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mariano Absatz - El Baby escribi=C3=B3 el 09/10/08 17:18:
> Well... besides the news in this morning's printed edition of "La
> Naci=C3=B3n" (http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=3D1057552) I sent
> earlier, now "Clar=C3=ADn" (the other major newspaper here) said 3 hours
> ago in its electronic edition
> (http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/10/09/um/m-01777946.htm) the same
> information, adding that "*In the coming days*, president Cristina
> Fern=C3=A1ndez de Kirchner will sign the decree that mandates forwarding
> the clocks between October 19th and March 14th, 2009(...)" so far for
> timely legislation...
>
> The on-line edition of "La Naci=C3=B3n" also states
> (http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=3D1057701) that the
> Province of Mendoza will *not* adhere to the DST change this year and
> that other Provinces may follow it in the decision.
>
> In fact, a few days ago, the Governor of Mendoza sent a Provincial Law
> Project to the Province Legislature saying that the Province will not
> change the time even if the Nation does
> (http://www.cuyonoticias.com.ar/index.php/politica/1034-mendoza-seguira-la-=
hora-qpuntanaq.html).
>
>
> So Mendoza is actually being more timely than the Federal Government.
>
> Maybe we should modify 'southamerica' to note this...
>
> Now, in the complete speculation game, my personal guess is that at
> least San Luis will also stay in UTC-03:00 and not apply DST... I
> dunno about other provinces.
>
> According to the above article from "La Naci=C3=B3n", Provinces which might
> not adhere (besides Mendoza and San Luis), include Tucum=C3=A1n, Catamarca
> and San Juan...
>
> Worst thing is that I can't seem to find reliable sources other than
> the press... and for Provincial matters, the National media are not
> that trustworthy...
Well... as usual, it is already  *that week* and I don't have any
reliable sources... my appeal for help
(http://clueless.com.ar/articles/llamado-a-la-solidaridad) didn't get
one response...

For what I see in the provincial press, the following provinces will
*not* apply DST this year:

* Mendoza
* San Juan
* San Luis
* Catamarca
* La Rioja

Only sources are provincial media:
http://www.lagaceta.com.ar/nota/295171/Informacion_General/pais_partira_dos_c=
ambio_huso_horario.html
http://www.mdzol.com/mdz/nota/76760-Mendoza-y-otras-cuatro-provincias-no-camb=
iar%C3%ADan-la-hora-el-pr%C3%B3ximo-domingo/
http://www.ciudadanodiario.com.ar/nota.php?id=3D59894

At least they don't contradict each other...

--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against
me, but deep down I know that's not true. Some smaller
countries are neutral.
    Robert Orben
    American magician and comedy writer (1927 - )
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

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From baby@baby.com.ar Wed Oct 15 07:12:54 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 08:12:46 -0300
Message-ID: <48F5D02E.9060503@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <48F5552D.90505@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mariano Absatz - El Baby escribi=C3=B3 el 14/10/08 23:27:
> Well... as usual, it is already  *that week* and I don't have any
> reliable sources... my appeal for help
> (http://clueless.com.ar/articles/llamado-a-la-solidaridad) didn't get
> one response...
>
> For what I see in the provincial press, the following provinces will
> *not* apply DST this year:
>
> * Mendoza
> * San Juan
> * San Luis
> * Catamarca
> * La Rioja
>
> Only sources are provincial media:
> http://www.lagaceta.com.ar/nota/295171/Informacion_General/pais_partira_dos=
_cambio_huso_horario.html
> http://www.mdzol.com/mdz/nota/76760-Mendoza-y-otras-cuatro-provincias-no-ca=
mbiar%C3%ADan-la-hora-el-pr%C3%B3ximo-domingo/
> http://www.ciudadanodiario.com.ar/nota.php?id=3D59894
>
> At least they don't contradict each other..
This morning, 5:08 (UTC-03:00) Clar=C3=ADn (major newspaper) published this
on line (there's something along the same line in the printed version):
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/10/15/um/m-01781785.htm

I quote:

    /Todo indica que a partir de este domingo la Argentina tendr=C3=A1 dos
    husos horarios. Es que al menos cinco provincias no adelantar=C3=ADan la
    hora. San Luis y Mendoza ya lo confirmaron y en La Rioja, San Juan y
    Catamarca dicen que todav=C3=ADa no hay decisi=C3=B3n oficial, pero que "=
muy
    probablemente" no mover=C3=A1n las agujas del reloj. Aseguran que las
    horas de luz y oscuridad no se vinculan con el estilo de vida y
    costumbres de las provincias y que, incluso, el a=C3=B1o pasado mucha
    gente tuvo problemas para dormir./

and translate:

    /Everything shows that starting this Sunday, Argentina will have two
    time zones. At least five provinces would not move forward the
    clocks. San Luis and Mendoza already confirmed it and in La Rioja,
    San Juan and Catamarca they say there is no oficial decision yet,
    but "very probably" they will not move the clock hands. They afirm
    that light and darkness hours do not agree with the lifestyle and
    customs in the provinces and that last year many people had problems
    to sleep./


I still couldn't find (in the National "Bolet=C3=ADn Oficial") the decree
that confirms that the country will adopt DST next Sunday :-(

--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
bashian roulette:
[ $(($RANDOM%6)) -eq 0 ] && rm -rf ~
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

--===============2201172113310956986==--


From straen@thorsen.priv.no Thu Oct 16 04:48:43 2008
From: Steffen Thorsen 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:48:19 +0200
Message-ID: <48F6FFD3.9090507@thorsen.priv.no>
In-Reply-To: <48F5D02E.9060503@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2315694526428624604=="

--===============2315694526428624604==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
> and translate:
>
>     /Everything shows that starting this Sunday, Argentina will have two
>     time zones. At least five provinces would not move forward the
>     clocks. San Luis and Mendoza already confirmed it and in La Rioja,
>     San Juan and Catamarca they say there is no oficial decision yet,
>     but "very probably" they will not move the clock hands. They afirm
>     that light and darkness hours do not agree with the lifestyle and
>     customs in the provinces and that last year many people had problems
>     to sleep./
>  =20
It seems to be official in Catamarca and San Juan as well now, according=20
to the press:

http://www.diarioc.com.ar/inf_general/No_habra_cambio_de_horario_en_Catamarca=
/109626
which says something like this (translated):
"The governor of the province, Eduardo Brizuela del Moral ratified, in=20
official way that the time zone change that is requested from nation=20
after 19th of the current month will not occur in our province because=20
as we already know it does not benefit our town."

http://www.diariodecuyo.com.ar/home/new_noticia.php?noticia_id=3D308387=20
(San Juan)
Translation: "San Juan=E2=80=99s provincial governor Jos=C3=A9 Luis Gioja con=
firmed=20
today [2008-10-15], that the province would not participate in the=20
daylight saving schedule that was planned by the federal government."

Best regards,
Steffen - timeanddate.com


--===============2315694526428624604==--


From pmachata@redhat.com Thu Oct 16 07:36:54 2008
From: Petr Machata 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:36:37 +0200
Message-ID: <48F72745.2010905@redhat.com>
In-Reply-To: <48F6FFD3.9090507@thorsen.priv.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0690221739076900743=="

--===============0690221739076900743==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Steffen Thorsen wrote:
> Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
>> and translate:
>>
>>     /Everything shows that starting this Sunday, Argentina will have two
>>     time zones. At least five provinces would not move forward the
>>     clocks. San Luis and Mendoza already confirmed it and in La Rioja,
>>     San Juan and Catamarca they say there is no oficial decision yet,
>>     but "very probably" they will not move the clock hands. They afirm
>>     that light and darkness hours do not agree with the lifestyle and
>>     customs in the provinces and that last year many people had problems
>>     to sleep./
>>  =20
> It seems to be official in Catamarca and San Juan as well now, according=20
> to the press:

I'm eyeing the sources, and is seems to me that we need to split=20
America/Argentina/Catamarca in two, one for Catamarca (which doesn't=20
plan to introduce the DST), and one for Chubut (which does).  The most=20
populous city in Chubut, per wikipedia, is Comodoro Rivadavia, "often=20
referred simply as Comodoro", hence the zone would be=20
America/Argentina/Comodoro.

The patch is attached that, I hope, implements the above changes, even=20
though more commentary changes would probably be apt.  Please comment.

PM

diff -rp tzdata-2008h/tzdata2008h/southamerica tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/sou=
thamerica
*** tzdata-2008h/tzdata2008h/southamerica	2008-10-08 14:46:17.000000000 +0200
--- tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/southamerica	2008-10-16 13:21:53.000000000 +02=
00
*************** Zone America/Argentina/La_Rioja -4:27:24
*** 388,394 ****
  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
  			-3:00	-	ART	2004 Jun  1
  			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jun 20
! 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
  #
  # San Juan (SJ)
  Zone America/Argentina/San_Juan -4:34:04 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
--- 388,395 ----
  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
  			-3:00	-	ART	2004 Jun  1
  			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jun 20
! 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
! 			-3:00	-	ART
  #
  # San Juan (SJ)
  Zone America/Argentina/San_Juan -4:34:04 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
*************** Zone America/Argentina/San_Juan -4:34:04
*** 401,407 ****
  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
  			-3:00	-	ART	2004 May 31
  			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jul 25
! 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
  #
  # Jujuy (JY)
  Zone America/Argentina/Jujuy -4:21:12 -	LMT	1894 Oct 31
--- 402,409 ----
  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
  			-3:00	-	ART	2004 May 31
  			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jul 25
! 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
! 			-3:00	-	ART
  #
  # Jujuy (JY)
  Zone America/Argentina/Jujuy -4:21:12 -	LMT	1894 Oct 31
*************** Zone America/Argentina/Jujuy -4:21:12 -=09
*** 417,423 ****
  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
  			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
  #
! # Catamarca (CT), Chubut (CH)
  Zone America/Argentina/Catamarca -4:23:08 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
  			-4:16:48 -	CMT	1920 May
  			-4:00	-	ART	1930 Dec
--- 419,425 ----
  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
  			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
  #
! # Catamarca (CT)
  Zone America/Argentina/Catamarca -4:23:08 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
  			-4:16:48 -	CMT	1920 May
  			-4:00	-	ART	1930 Dec
*************** Zone America/Argentina/Catamarca -4:23:0
*** 428,433 ****
--- 430,449 ----
  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
  			-3:00	-	ART	2004 Jun  1
  			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jun 20
+ 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
+ 			-3:00	-	ART
+ #
+ # Chubut (CH)
+ Zone America/Argentina/Comodoro -4:23:08 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
+ 			-4:16:48 -	CMT	1920 May
+ 			-4:00	-	ART	1930 Dec
+ 			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	1969 Oct  5
+ 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	1991 Mar  3
+ 			-4:00	-	WART	1991 Oct 20
+ 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	1999 Oct  3
+ 			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
+ 			-3:00	-	ART	2004 Jun  1
+ 			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jun 20
  			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
  #
  # Mendoza (MZ)
*************** Zone America/Argentina/Mendoza -4:35:16=20
*** 445,451 ****
  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
  			-3:00	-	ART	2004 May 23
  			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Sep 26
! 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
  #
  # San Luis (SL)
  Zone America/Argentina/San_Luis -4:25:24 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
--- 461,468 ----
  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
  			-3:00	-	ART	2004 May 23
  			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Sep 26
! 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
! 			-3:00	-	ART
  #
  # San Luis (SL)
  Zone America/Argentina/San_Luis -4:25:24 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
Only in tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/: southamerica~

--===============0690221739076900743==--


From straen@thorsen.priv.no Thu Oct 16 08:42:57 2008
From: Steffen Thorsen 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:42:29 +0200
Message-ID: <48F736B5.5040505@thorsen.priv.no>
In-Reply-To: <48F6FFD3.9090507@thorsen.priv.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1318237089040685489=="

--===============1318237089040685489==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Finally something on an official site:
Decreto/Decree 1693/2008 (dated 2008-10-15) is now released today=20
(2008-10-16) in the Boletin Oficial No 31.511, with the dates as=20
announced earlier:

http://www.boletinoficial.gov.ar/Bora.Portal/CustomControls/PdfContent.aspx?f=
p=3D16102008&pi=3D3&pf=3D4&s=3D0&sec=3D01

Best regards,
Steffen - timeanddate.com



--===============1318237089040685489==--


From schizo@debian.org Thu Oct 16 09:36:18 2008
From: Clint Adams 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:36:13 +0000
Message-ID: <20081016133613.GA21301@scru.org>
In-Reply-To: <48F72745.2010905@redhat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7349893448780146248=="

--===============7349893448780146248==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 01:36:37PM +0200, Petr Machata wrote:
> I'm eyeing the sources, and is seems to me that we need to split  
> America/Argentina/Catamarca in two, one for Catamarca (which doesn't  
> plan to introduce the DST), and one for Chubut (which does).  The most  
> populous city in Chubut, per wikipedia, is Comodoro Rivadavia, "often  
> referred simply as Comodoro", hence the zone would be  
> America/Argentina/Comodoro.

There is already America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia; you might want to use
that.

--===============7349893448780146248==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Thu Oct 16 11:42:49 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:42:43 -0300
Message-ID: <48F760F3.3060009@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <48F736B5.5040505@thorsen.priv.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8464096528000945093=="

--===============8464096528000945093==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanx for the link Steffen,

whenever the Decree is dated on October 15th, since it is published in=20
today's (Oct 16th) Bolet=C3=ADn Oficial, then it's in force since today...=20
we're doing better... it's 2 and 1/2 days in advance (instead of 1 1/2=20
like last December)...

Steffen Thorsen escribi=C3=B3 el 16/10/08 09:42:
> Finally something on an official site:
> Decreto/Decree 1693/2008 (dated 2008-10-15) is now released today=20
> (2008-10-16) in the Boletin Oficial No 31.511, with the dates as=20
> announced earlier:
>
> http://www.boletinoficial.gov.ar/Bora.Portal/CustomControls/PdfContent.aspx=
?fp=3D16102008&pi=3D3&pf=3D4&s=3D0&sec=3D01=20
>
>
> Best regards,
> Steffen - timeanddate.com
>
>


--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
Sarcasm is just one more service we offer.
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


--===============8464096528000945093==--


From scolebourne@joda.org Thu Oct 16 11:49:26 2008
From: Stephen Colebourne 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:49:24 +0100
Message-ID: <4b4f45e00810160849s21a2c688h64f475c2dfdae01c@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20081016133613.GA21301@scru.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7640996017147212463=="

--===============7640996017147212463==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Some more info from IATA:

"IATA has been informed that the Argentinean Provinces of Catamarca,
Mendoza, San Juan and San Luis would not implement DST in 2008"

Stephen


2008/10/16 Clint Adams :
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 01:36:37PM +0200, Petr Machata wrote:
>> I'm eyeing the sources, and is seems to me that we need to split
>> America/Argentina/Catamarca in two, one for Catamarca (which doesn't
>> plan to introduce the DST), and one for Chubut (which does).  The most
>> populous city in Chubut, per wikipedia, is Comodoro Rivadavia, "often
>> referred simply as Comodoro", hence the zone would be
>> America/Argentina/Comodoro.
>
> There is already America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia; you might want to use
> that.
>
>

--===============7640996017147212463==--


From ezcolombo@gmail.com Thu Oct 16 12:13:45 2008
From: Ezequiel Colombo 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject:
 Re: proposed time zone package changes (Argentina, Mauritius, Niue, Syria)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:13:27 +0000
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1730323349561467114=="

--===============1730323349561467114==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> I strongly agree with Nicolas, the event last week was caused by a previous=
=20
> *guess* as you can see here=20
(http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz/2015)=20
> and has been causing several problems in our systems these days. Our=20
government=20
> hasn't released any new law describing DST for this year so there isn's any=
=20
> reason to include 2008 (and future) Rules for Argentina.
>=20
> In my case i haven't included the '08s Rule in my tzdata last year, but i'm=
=20
> using some JAVA software that has included it in their tzupdater tool. Now =
i=20
> have to wait for a fixed tzdata and then wait for SUN to release the=20
tzupdater=20
> tool including that tzdata.
>=20
> Please do not make the same mistake twice, the rules should be based on law=
s=20
or=20
> formal government announcements.
>=20
> Thanks
> ezequiel
>=20
>=20

The decree 1693/2008 was published today in Argentina stating the following=20
rule for the 2008/2009 DST scheme.

- Switch to GMT -02:00 on 3rd Sunday of October 2008, 00:00:00hs.
- Switch back to GMT -03:00 on 3rd Sunday of March 2009, 00:00:00hs.

http://www.boletinoficial.gov.ar/Bora.Portal/CustomControls/PdfContent.aspx?
fp=3D16102008=CF=80=3D3&pf=3D4&s=3D0&sec=3D01

Regards
ezequiel


--===============1730323349561467114==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Thu Oct 16 12:22:24 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:22:21 -0300
Message-ID: <48F76A3D.2070206@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <20081016133613.GA21301@scru.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0771941147886029669=="

--===============0771941147886029669==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Clint Adams escribió el 16/10/08 10:36:
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 01:36:37PM +0200, Petr Machata wrote:
>   
>> I'm eyeing the sources, and is seems to me that we need to split  
>> America/Argentina/Catamarca in two, one for Catamarca (which doesn't  
>> plan to introduce the DST), and one for Chubut (which does).  The most  
>> populous city in Chubut, per wikipedia, is Comodoro Rivadavia, "often  
>> referred simply as Comodoro", hence the zone would be  
>> America/Argentina/Comodoro.
>>     
>
> There is already America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia; you might want to use
> that.
>   
Mmmhhh America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia is a link in the backward 
file... and I don't like either the contraction "ComodRivadavia" or 
"Comodoro" which is a generic naval rank (as would be "Real Admiral")... 
I think America/Argentina/Comodoro_Rivadavia would be a better choice 
(in the same line as America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires... and we could 
change the link entry in backward to point to it...

Here's a patch (against 2008h) which does what I say...

One historical question... I find that all cities, up until 1894-10-31 
refer to LMT (Lima Mean Time?)... but all have different offsets... 
after that and up until May 1920, all refer to CMT (Córdoba Mean Time) 
at a fixed -4:16:48 offset.

Which is the source for the LMT offsets?... 'cause I'm happily copying 
and pasting and for sure introducing errors in the past... not that I'm 
afraid of the butterfly effect, but I'd rather not introduce wronful data...

Paul?

-- 
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
You can't run sausage backwards through a
meat grinder and end up with a whole pig.
        -- Tim Peoples
        talking about the irreversability
                of UNIX password encoding
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


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--===============0771941147886029669==--


From AndyLipscomb@decosimo.com Thu Oct 16 12:26:22 2008
From: Andy Lipscomb 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: RE: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:26:09 -0400
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: <48F76A3D.2070206@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0653909342053114135=="

--===============0653909342053114135==
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"One historical question... I find that all cities, up until 1894-10-31 refer=
 to LMT (Lima Mean Time?)... but all have different offsets...=20
after that and up until May 1920, all refer to CMT (C=C3=B3rdoba Mean Time) a=
t a fixed -4:16:48 offset.

Which is the source for the LMT offsets?... 'cause I'm happily copying and pa=
sting and for sure introducing errors in the past... not that I'm afraid of t=
he butterfly effect, but I'd rather not introduce wronful data..."

LMT actually stands for Local Mean Time.  In other words, average solar time =
at that location. It can be computed from longitude--each degree of west long=
itude converts to four minutes behind UTC; otherwise put, a 15-degree longitu=
de difference equals a one-hour LMT difference.


--===============0653909342053114135==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Thu Oct 16 14:17:49 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:17:49 -0300
Message-ID: <48F7854D.6060902@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To:
 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8853558673254197304=="

--===============8853558673254197304==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Andy Lipscomb escribi=C3=B3 el 16/10/08 13:26:
>
>     "One historical question... I find that all cities, up until
>     1894-10-31 refer to LMT (Lima Mean Time?)... but all have
>     different offsets...
>     after that and up until May 1920, all refer to CMT (C=C3=B3rdoba Mean
>     Time) at a fixed -4:16:48 offset.
>
>     Which is the source for the LMT offsets?... 'cause I'm happily
>     copying and pasting and for sure introducing errors in the past...
>     not that I'm afraid of the butterfly effect, but I'd rather not
>     introduce wronful data..."
>
> LMT actually stands for Local Mean Time.  In other words, average solar tim=
e at that location. It can be computed from longitude--each degree of west lo=
ngitude converts to four minutes behind UTC; otherwise put, a 15-degree longi=
tude difference equals a one-hour LMT difference.
>
>  =20
OK, now I get it... I'll find out longitudes of all the cities in=20
America/Argentina, do the math and propose a patch... but before that...

today appeared in the Bolet=C3=ADn Oficial of the Province of Mendoza the=20
Provincial Law 7.955=20
(http://www.gobernac.mendoza.gov.ar/boletin/pdf/20081016-28259-normas.pdf)

It says that Mendoza will use UTC-03:00 and UTC-04:00... and that the=20
Provincial Executive Branch (the Governor) has the power to establish=20
which one will be in effect and when... (along the same lines as the=20
National Law, but with different time zones)...

However, neither that Law, nor the Decree #2.807 that promulgates it,=20
says anything about what will be done in the next few days (or months)...

So, it's reasonable to think that at least until March 2009, Mendoza=20
will keep using UTC-03:00, however, I think we should say that Mendoza=20
is actually observing DST from its now standard WART (that is, it is at=20
WARST, which is the same as ART)... am I right? Or is it just to messy?

I enclose a new patch (always against 2008h).

--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
Beware of programmers with screwdrivers.
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org




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From baby@baby.com.ar Thu Oct 16 17:52:32 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:52:31 -0300
Message-ID: <48F7B79F.4040502@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <48F7854D.6060902@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7161106390284966297=="

--===============7161106390284966297==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mariano Absatz - El Baby escribi=C3=B3 el 16/10/08 15:17:
> Andy Lipscomb escribi=C3=B3 el 16/10/08 13:26:
>>
>>     "One historical question... I find that all cities, up until
>>     1894-10-31 refer to LMT (Lima Mean Time?)... but all have
>>     different offsets...
>>     after that and up until May 1920, all refer to CMT (C=C3=B3rdoba Mean
>>     Time) at a fixed -4:16:48 offset.
>>
>>     Which is the source for the LMT offsets?... 'cause I'm happily
>>     copying and pasting and for sure introducing errors in the
>>     past... not that I'm afraid of the butterfly effect, but I'd
>>     rather not introduce wronful data..."
>>
>> LMT actually stands for Local Mean Time.  In other words, average solar ti=
me at that location. It can be computed from longitude--each degree of west l=
ongitude converts to four minutes behind UTC; otherwise put, a 15-degree long=
itude difference equals a one-hour LMT difference.
>>
>>  =20
Here's a new patch... the only difference is that I put the LMT on=20
Comodoro Rivadavia (based on Andy's comment and the info on wikipedia=20
that says that it's at 67=C2=B030'00"W)
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comodoro_rivadavia

--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
Build a system that even a fool can use, and only a
fool will use it.
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
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* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


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--===============7161106390284966297==--


From nicolas.alvarez@gmail.com Thu Oct 16 18:27:58 2008
From: Nicolas Alvarez 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:27:57 -0300
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: <48F7854D.6060902@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8976576180859401348=="

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Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
> It says that Mendoza will use UTC-03:00 and UTC-04:00...

Wow! Correctness at last!

(geographically, Argentina is almost completely in the GMT-4 zone)



--===============8976576180859401348==--


From pmachata@redhat.com Fri Oct 17 04:45:53 2008
From: Petr Machata 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:45:49 +0200
Message-ID: <48F850BD.205@redhat.com>
In-Reply-To: <48F76A3D.2070206@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0274261389036746732=="

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Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
> Clint Adams escribió el 16/10/08 10:36:
>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 01:36:37PM +0200, Petr Machata wrote:
>>  
>>> I'm eyeing the sources, and is seems to me that we need to split  
>>> America/Argentina/Catamarca in two, one for Catamarca (which doesn't  
>>> plan to introduce the DST), and one for Chubut (which does).  The 
>>> most  populous city in Chubut, per wikipedia, is Comodoro Rivadavia, 
>>> "often  referred simply as Comodoro", hence the zone would be  
>>> America/Argentina/Comodoro.
>>>     
>>
>> There is already America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia; you might want to use
>> that.
>>   
> Mmmhhh America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia is a link in the backward 
> file... and I don't like either the contraction "ComodRivadavia" or 
> "Comodoro" which is a generic naval rank (as would be "Real Admiral")... 
> I think America/Argentina/Comodoro_Rivadavia would be a better choice 

Yeah, but "a file name component must not exceed 14 characters [...]" 
(it's in the Theory file).  That's why I used Comodoro in the first 
place (not noticing the backlink), and that's the reason the backlink 
name has so awkward spelling.  I'd rather reuse the already existing 
backlink, if it's not a problem to change a backlink back to a 
full-fledged zone, just to keep the namespace cleaner.

PM

--===============0274261389036746732==--


From vkhare@cisco.com Fri Oct 17 05:13:46 2008
From: "Vilas Khare (vkhare)" 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: RE: Argentina DST blues
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:09:43 -0700
Message-ID:
 <3EB92CE65B3E2041A778B01798F53B230B0BE5@xmb-sjc-23b.amer.cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <48F850BD.205@redhat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0353538901284166015=="

--===============0353538901284166015==
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Can someone point me to a site that has Argentina DST changes for 2008 ? 

Thanks

Vilas
--    

-----Original Message-----
From: Petr Machata [mailto:pmachata@redhat.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:46 AM
To: tz@lecserver.nci.nih.gov
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues

Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
> Clint Adams escribió el 16/10/08 10:36:
>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 01:36:37PM +0200, Petr Machata wrote:
>>  
>>> I'm eyeing the sources, and is seems to me that we need to split 
>>> America/Argentina/Catamarca in two, one for Catamarca (which doesn't 
>>> plan to introduce the DST), and one for Chubut (which does).  The 
>>> most  populous city in Chubut, per wikipedia, is Comodoro Rivadavia, 
>>> "often  referred simply as Comodoro", hence the zone would be 
>>> America/Argentina/Comodoro.
>>>     
>>
>> There is already America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia; you might want to use
>> that.
>>   
> Mmmhhh America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia is a link in the backward 
> file... and I don't like either the contraction "ComodRivadavia" or 
> "Comodoro" which is a generic naval rank (as would be "Real Admiral")... 
> I think America/Argentina/Comodoro_Rivadavia would be a better choice 

Yeah, but "a file name component must not exceed 14 characters [...]" 
(it's in the Theory file).  That's why I used Comodoro in the first 
place (not noticing the backlink), and that's the reason the backlink 
name has so awkward spelling.  I'd rather reuse the already existing 
backlink, if it's not a problem to change a backlink back to a 
full-fledged zone, just to keep the namespace cleaner.

PM



--===============0353538901284166015==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Fri Oct 17 07:01:23 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:01:12 -0300
Message-ID: <48F87078.9060306@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To:
 <3EB92CE65B3E2041A778B01798F53B230B0BE5@xmb-sjc-23b.amer.cisco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0470504796422092703=="

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Vilas Khare (vkhare) escribió el 17/10/08 06:09:
> Can someone point me to a site that has Argentina DST changes for 2008 ? 
>
>   
Sorry... do you mean "oficial information about what changes when"? or
current zoneinfo data to keep your computers' localtime right?

-- 
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
To define recursion, we must first define recursion.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


--===============0470504796422092703==--


From straen@thorsen.priv.no Fri Oct 17 07:23:39 2008
From: Steffen Thorsen 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:23:06 +0200
Message-ID: <48F8759A.70005@thorsen.priv.no>
In-Reply-To: <48F736B5.5040505@thorsen.priv.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1555679450963684037=="

--===============1555679450963684037==
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The Salta Province in Argentina will not use DST either, as announced on 
their official site:
http://www.salta.gov.ar/ver_noticia.php?id=8009

Best regards,
Steffen - timeanddate.com


--===============1555679450963684037==--


From pmachata@redhat.com Fri Oct 17 08:25:38 2008
From: Petr Machata 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:25:34 +0200
Message-ID: <48F8843E.8050301@redhat.com>
In-Reply-To: <48F76A3D.2070206@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3153769611826989966=="

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Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
> Here's a patch (against 2008h) which does what I say...

> diff -ur tzdata2008h/southamerica tzdata2008h-proposed_baby/southamerica
> --- tzdata2008h/southamerica	2008-10-08 09:46:17.000000000 -0300
> +++ tzdata2008h-proposed_baby/southamerica	2008-10-16 18:48:52.000000000 -0=
300
> @@ -388,7 +388,8 @@
>  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
>  			-3:00	-	ART	2004 Jun  1
>  			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jun 20
> -			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
> +			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
> +			-3:00	Arg	ART

This still schedules La Rioja for DST, it just drops "S" from timezone=20
abbreviation.  The same mistake is with San Juan and Catamarca.

>  #
>  # Jujuy (JY)
>  Zone America/Argentina/Jujuy -4:21:12 -	LMT	1894 Oct 31
> @@ -415,9 +417,10 @@
>  			-3:00	1:00	ARST	1992
>  			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	1999 Oct  3
>  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
> -			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
> +			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
> +			-3:00	Arg	ART

I thought Jujuy was expected to introduce DST, so why this change?

>  #
>  # Mendoza (MZ)
>  Zone America/Argentina/Mendoza -4:35:16 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
> @@ -445,7 +449,8 @@
>  			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
>  			-3:00	-	ART	2004 May 23
>  			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Sep 26
> -			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
> +			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 17
> +			-4:00	1:00	WARST

I guess this hunk is related to this:

> It says that Mendoza will use UTC-03:00 and UTC-04:00... and that the
> Provincial Executive Branch (the Governor) has the power to establish
> which one will be in effect and when... (along the same lines as the
> National Law, but with different time zones)...

> So, it's reasonable to think that at least until March 2009, Mendoza
> will keep using UTC-03:00, however, I think we should say that
> Mendoza is actually observing DST from its now standard WART (that
> is, it is at WARST, which is the same as ART)... am I right? Or is it
> just to messy?

So are they actually in WART zone?  Seems to me that the bylaw just=20
allows the governor to pick more suitable zone, so I'm inclined to leave=20
them in -3 and just wait for a magazine article to show up with=20
definitive answer.  (But honestly I have no idea if the -4:00/1:00 is=20
some kind of idiom, maybe it suits exactly this kind of situation.)

PM

--===============3153769611826989966==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Fri Oct 17 08:37:55 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:37:47 -0300
Message-ID: <48F8871B.6050604@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <48F8759A.70005@thorsen.priv.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Steffen Thorsen escribi=C3=B3 el 17/10/08 08:23:
> The Salta Province in Argentina will not use DST either, as announced
> on their official site:
> http://www.salta.gov.ar/ver_noticia.php?id=3D8009
>
Thanx, Steffen... I hadn't heard that... now I read in the papers that
Nequ=C3=A9n, La Rioja and Jujuy wouldn't use DST either...

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=3D1060181
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/10/17/sociedad/s-01783032.htm

I'm enclosing a new patch that considers that the following Provinces
will NOT use DST this year:

Mendoza (but it calls UTC-3 WARST)
San Juan
San Luis
Catamarca
Salta
Neuqu=C3=A9n
Jujuy
La Rioja

I also uploaded a tz file for Argentina with this info at
http://wiki.clueless.com.ar/ActualizarTimezonesConTzdata?action=3DAttachFile&=
do=3Dget&target=3Dargentina-baby-2008-10-16.zoneinfo

There are instructions (in Spanish) to download and compile it at
http://wiki.clueless.com.ar/ActualizarTimezonesConTzdata#parche_baby_2008_10

I'll try to keep this updated during the weekend, but I make no promises...


--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
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makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your
whole leg.
                             -- Bjarne Stroustrup
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* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


--===============1789679747488780833==--


From pmachata@redhat.com Fri Oct 17 08:44:02 2008
From: Petr Machata 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:43:58 +0200
Message-ID: <48F8888E.808@redhat.com>
In-Reply-To: <48F8759A.70005@thorsen.priv.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0507294232689714520=="

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Steffen Thorsen wrote:
> The Salta Province in Argentina will not use DST either, as announced on=20
> their official site:
> http://www.salta.gov.ar/ver_noticia.php?id=3D8009

Attaching a patch that
  - splits America/Argentina/Cordoba zone into .../Salta
  - splits America/Argentina/Catamarca into .../ComodRivadavia
  - adjusts ComodRivadavia's LMT zone per Mariano Absatz's calculations
  - drops ComodRivadavia from backlinks
  - addds both new zones into zone.tab

PM

diff -urp tzdata-2008h/tzdata2008h/backward tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/backwa=
rd
--- tzdata-2008h/tzdata2008h/backward	2008-09-10 04:33:26.000000000 +0200
+++ tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/backward	2008-10-16 15:50:23.000000000 +0200
@@ -5,7 +5,6 @@
=20
 Link	Africa/Asmara		Africa/Asmera
 Link	Africa/Bamako		Africa/Timbuktu
-Link	America/Argentina/Catamarca	America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia
 Link	America/Adak		America/Atka
 Link	America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires	America/Buenos_Aires
 Link	America/Argentina/Catamarca	America/Catamarca
Only in tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/: backward~
diff -urp tzdata-2008h/tzdata2008h/southamerica tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/so=
uthamerica
--- tzdata-2008h/tzdata2008h/southamerica	2008-10-08 14:46:17.000000000 +0200
+++ tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/southamerica	2008-10-17 14:21:56.000000000 +02=
00
@@ -344,7 +344,7 @@ Zone America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires -3:5
 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
 #
 # Santa Fe (SF), Entre Rios (ER), Corrientes (CN), Misiones (MN), Chaco (CC),
-# Formosa (FM), Salta (SA), Santiago del Estero (SE), Cordoba (CB),
+# Formosa (FM), Santiago del Estero (SE), Cordoba (CB),
 # La Pampa (LP), Neuquen (NQ), Rio Negro (RN)
 #
 # Shanks & Pottenger also make the following claims, which we haven't verifi=
ed:
@@ -363,6 +363,17 @@ Zone America/Argentina/Cordoba -4:16:48=20
 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	1999 Oct  3
 			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
+# Salta (SA)
+Zone America/Argentina/Salta -4:16:48 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
+			-4:16:48 -	CMT	1920 May
+			-4:00	-	ART	1930 Dec
+			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	1969 Oct  5
+			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	1991 Mar  3
+			-4:00	-	WART	1991 Oct 20
+			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	1999 Oct  3
+			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
+			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
+			-3:00	-	ART
 #
 # Tucuman (TM)
 Zone America/Argentina/Tucuman -4:20:52 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
@@ -388,7 +399,8 @@ Zone America/Argentina/La_Rioja -4:27:24
 			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
 			-3:00	-	ART	2004 Jun  1
 			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jun 20
-			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
+			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
+			-3:00	-	ART
 #
 # San Juan (SJ)
 Zone America/Argentina/San_Juan -4:34:04 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
@@ -401,7 +413,8 @@ Zone America/Argentina/San_Juan -4:34:04
 			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
 			-3:00	-	ART	2004 May 31
 			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jul 25
-			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
+			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
+			-3:00	-	ART
 #
 # Jujuy (JY)
 Zone America/Argentina/Jujuy -4:21:12 -	LMT	1894 Oct 31
@@ -417,7 +430,7 @@ Zone America/Argentina/Jujuy -4:21:12 -=09
 			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
 #
-# Catamarca (CT), Chubut (CH)
+# Catamarca (CT)
 Zone America/Argentina/Catamarca -4:23:08 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
 			-4:16:48 -	CMT	1920 May
 			-4:00	-	ART	1930 Dec
@@ -428,6 +441,20 @@ Zone America/Argentina/Catamarca -4:23:0
 			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
 			-3:00	-	ART	2004 Jun  1
 			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jun 20
+			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
+			-3:00	-	ART
+#
+# Chubut (CH)
+Zone America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia -4:30:00 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
+			-4:16:48 -	CMT	1920 May
+			-4:00	-	ART	1930 Dec
+			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	1969 Oct  5
+			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	1991 Mar  3
+			-4:00	-	WART	1991 Oct 20
+			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	1999 Oct  3
+			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
+			-3:00	-	ART	2004 Jun  1
+			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Jun 20
 			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
 #
 # Mendoza (MZ)
@@ -445,7 +472,8 @@ Zone America/Argentina/Mendoza -4:35:16=20
 			-4:00	Arg	AR%sT	2000 Mar  3
 			-3:00	-	ART	2004 May 23
 			-4:00	-	WART	2004 Sep 26
-			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT
+			-3:00	Arg	AR%sT	2008 Oct 19
+			-3:00	-	ART
 #
 # San Luis (SL)
 Zone America/Argentina/San_Luis -4:25:24 - LMT	1894 Oct 31
Only in tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/: southamerica~
diff -urp tzdata-2008h/tzdata2008h/zone.tab tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/zone.t=
ab
--- tzdata-2008h/tzdata2008h/zone.tab	2008-10-08 14:35:57.000000000 +0200
+++ tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/zone.tab	2008-10-17 14:35:31.000000000 +0200
@@ -42,12 +42,14 @@ AQ	-7824+10654	Antarctica/Vostok	Vostok=20
 AQ	-6640+14001	Antarctica/DumontDUrville	Dumont-d'Urville Station, Terre Ade=
lie
 AQ	-690022+0393524	Antarctica/Syowa	Syowa Station, E Ongul I
 AR	-3436-05827	America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires	Buenos Aires (BA, CF)
-AR	-3124-06411	America/Argentina/Cordoba	most locations (CB, CC, CN, ER, FM,=
 LP, MN, NQ, RN, SA, SE, SF)
+AR	-3124-06411	America/Argentina/Cordoba	most locations (CB, CC, CN, ER, FM,=
 LP, MN, NQ, RN, SE, SF)
+AR	-2447-06525	America/Argentina/Salta	Salta (SA)
 AR	-3319-06621	America/Argentina/San_Luis	San Luis (SL)
 AR	-2411-06518	America/Argentina/Jujuy	Jujuy (JY)
 AR	-2649-06513	America/Argentina/Tucuman	Tucuman (TM)
-AR	-2828-06547	America/Argentina/Catamarca	Catamarca (CT), Chubut (CH)
+AR	-2828-06547	America/Argentina/Catamarca	Catamarca (CT)
 AR	-2926-06651	America/Argentina/La_Rioja	La Rioja (LR)
+AR	-4551-06728	America/Argentina/ComodRivadavia	Chubut (CH)
 AR	-3132-06831	America/Argentina/San_Juan	San Juan (SJ)
 AR	-3253-06849	America/Argentina/Mendoza	Mendoza (MZ)
 AR	-5138-06913	America/Argentina/Rio_Gallegos	Santa Cruz (SC)
Only in tzdata-2008h-2/tzdata2008h/: zone.tab~

--===============0507294232689714520==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Fri Oct 17 08:52:02 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:51:58 -0300
Message-ID: <48F88A6E.8060809@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <48F8843E.8050301@redhat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1833707327563676104=="

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Petr Machata escribi=C3=B3 el 17/10/08 09:25:
> Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
>> Here's a patch (against 2008h) which does what I say...
>
>> diff -ur tzdata2008h/southamerica tzdata2008h-proposed_baby/southamerica
>> --- tzdata2008h/southamerica    2008-10-08 09:46:17.000000000 -0300
>> +++ tzdata2008h-proposed_baby/southamerica    2008-10-16
>> 18:48:52.000000000 -0300
>> @@ -388,7 +388,8 @@
>>              -4:00    Arg    AR%sT    2000 Mar  3
>>              -3:00    -    ART    2004 Jun  1
>>              -4:00    -    WART    2004 Jun 20
>> -            -3:00    Arg    AR%sT
>> +            -3:00    Arg    AR%sT    2008 Oct 19
>> +            -3:00    Arg    ART
>
> This still schedules La Rioja for DST, it just drops "S" from timezone
> abbreviation.  The same mistake is with San Juan and Catamarca.
You're right!! Thanx for looking at it and showing it...

I'm just showing my own inabilities and misunderstandings about the tz
file format :-(

>
>>  #
>>  # Jujuy (JY)
>>  Zone America/Argentina/Jujuy -4:21:12 -    LMT    1894 Oct 31
>> @@ -415,9 +417,10 @@
>>              -3:00    1:00    ARST    1992
>>              -3:00    Arg    AR%sT    1999 Oct  3
>>              -4:00    Arg    AR%sT    2000 Mar  3
>> -            -3:00    Arg    AR%sT
>> +            -3:00    Arg    AR%sT    2008 Oct 19
>> +            -3:00    Arg    ART
>
> I thought Jujuy was expected to introduce DST, so why this change?
The papers today say that the Legislature of Jujuy asked the Governor
not to apply DST (see my previous message)... I'm guessing this will
pass thru... but this has become harder than playing roulette at the
casino (or the stock market)...

>
>>  #
>>  # Mendoza (MZ)
>>  Zone America/Argentina/Mendoza -4:35:16 - LMT    1894 Oct 31
>> @@ -445,7 +449,8 @@
>>              -4:00    Arg    AR%sT    2000 Mar  3
>>              -3:00    -    ART    2004 May 23
>>              -4:00    -    WART    2004 Sep 26
>> -            -3:00    Arg    AR%sT
>> +            -3:00    Arg    AR%sT    2008 Oct 17
>> +            -4:00    1:00    WARST
>
> I guess this hunk is related to this:
>
>> It says that Mendoza will use UTC-03:00 and UTC-04:00... and that the
>> Provincial Executive Branch (the Governor) has the power to establish
>> which one will be in effect and when... (along the same lines as the
>> National Law, but with different time zones)...
>
>> So, it's reasonable to think that at least until March 2009, Mendoza
>> will keep using UTC-03:00, however, I think we should say that
>> Mendoza is actually observing DST from its now standard WART (that
>> is, it is at WARST, which is the same as ART)... am I right? Or is it
>> just to messy?
>
> So are they actually in WART zone?  Seems to me that the bylaw just
> allows the governor to pick more suitable zone, so I'm inclined to
> leave them in -3 and just wait for a magazine article to show up with
> definitive answer.  (But honestly I have no idea if the -4:00/1:00 is
> some kind of idiom, maybe it suits exactly this kind of situation.)
Not an idiom but another stupid mistake on my part...

Let's see if the one I'm attaching now is somehow better... gonna leave
for work... I dunno when (or if) I'll have more time for this today...

I also uploaded a tz file for Argentina with this info at
http://wiki.clueless.com.ar/ActualizarTimezonesConTzdata?action=3DAttachFile&=
do=3Dget&target=3Dargentina-baby-2008-10-16.zoneinfo

There are instructions (in Spanish) to download and compile it at
http://wiki.clueless.com.ar/ActualizarTimezonesConTzdata#parche_baby_2008_10



--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
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--===============1833707327563676104==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Fri Oct 17 10:17:32 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:17:28 -0300
Message-ID: <48F89E78.10402@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <48F88A6E.8060809@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7143294825028074963=="

--===============7143294825028074963==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Keep rockin'...

Now officially, the Nation exceptuated 12 Provinces from the Decree 1693=20
via a new Decree 1705 that appeared today in the Bolet=C3=ADn Oficial:

http://www.boletinoficial.gov.ar/Bora.Portal/CustomControls/PdfContent.aspx?f=
p=3D17102008&pi=3D1&pf=3D1&s=3D0&sec=3D01

The Provinces that will NOT apply DST are the following ones:

CATAMARCA
LA RIOJA
MENDOZA
SALTA
SAN JUAN
SAN LUIS
LA PAMPA
NEUQUEN
RIO NEGRO
CHUBUT
SANTA CRUZ
TIERRA DEL FUEGO, ANTARTIDA E ISLAS DEL ATLANTICO SUR

I'll try to create a new patch, considering what Petr Machata sent=20
earlier and this info, and will send it to the list later.

Regards.

--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
It isn't easy being the parent of a six-year-old.  However,
it's a pretty small price to pay for having somebody around
the house who understands computers.
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


--===============7143294825028074963==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Fri Oct 17 11:27:06 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:27:01 -0300
Message-ID: <48F8AEC5.3050802@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <48F89E78.10402@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4554597313495309937=="

--===============4554597313495309937==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mariano Absatz - El Baby escribi=C3=B3 el 17/10/08 11:17:
> Now officially, the Nation exceptuated 12 Provinces from the Decree=20
> 1693 via a new Decree 1705 that appeared today in the Bolet=C3=ADn Oficial:
>
> http://www.boletinoficial.gov.ar/Bora.Portal/CustomControls/PdfContent.aspx=
?fp=3D17102008&pi=3D1&pf=3D1&s=3D0&sec=3D01=20
>
>
> The Provinces that will NOT apply DST are the following ones:
>
> CATAMARCA
> LA RIOJA
> MENDOZA
> SALTA
> SAN JUAN
> SAN LUIS
> LA PAMPA
> NEUQUEN
> RIO NEGRO
> CHUBUT
> SANTA CRUZ
> TIERRA DEL FUEGO, ANTARTIDA E ISLAS DEL ATLANTICO SUR
The enclosed patch does the following:

References Decrees 1693 and 1705 from the Argentina's Bolet=C3=ADn Oficial

Splits America/Argentina/Cordoba into America/Argentina/Salta, adjusting=20
LMT for the latter for dates up to 1894-10-31

Adjusts the following zones not to apply DST from now on:
America/Argentina/Salta
America/Argentina/Catamarca
America/Argentina/La_Rioja
America/Argentina/San_Juan
America/Argentina/Mendoza
America/Argentina/San_Luis
America/Argentina/Rio_Gallegos
America/Argentina/Ushuaia

Adds the new zone into zone.tab

Reorders America/Argentina/* within zone.tab according to the=20
instructions within the file (geographical sense / most populous first)

Reorders America/Argentina/* within southamerica to have the same order=20
as within zone.tab

I also uploaded a tz file for Argentina with this info at
http://wiki.clueless.com.ar/ActualizarTimezonesConTzdata?action=3DAttachFile&=
do=3Dget&target=3Dargentina-baby-2008-10-17.zoneinfo

There are instructions (in Spanish) to download and compile it at
http://wiki.clueless.com.ar/ActualizarTimezonesConTzdata#parche_baby_2008_10


--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
Clarke's Fourth Law: For every expert there is an equal and
opposite expert.
  Arthur C. Clarke, 1999
  English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - 2008)
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


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--===============4554597313495309937==--


From edwin@mavetju.org Fri Oct 17 23:31:26 2008
From: Edwin Groothuis 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:30:53 +0000
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: <48F89E78.10402@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0082243947321244034=="

--===============0082243947321244034==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mariano Absatz - El Baby  baby.com.ar> writes:

> The Provinces that will NOT apply DST are the following ones:
> 
> CATAMARCA
> LA RIOJA
> MENDOZA
> SALTA
> SAN JUAN
> SAN LUIS
> LA PAMPA
> NEUQUEN
> RIO NEGRO
> CHUBUT
> SANTA CRUZ
> TIERRA DEL FUEGO, ANTARTIDA E ISLAS DEL ATLANTICO SUR

http://www.mavetju.org/~edwin/Argentina-DST.png

Blue is DST, green is non-DST. Original image and names came from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina.

At least it's not a checkers-board :-)

Edwin

-- 
Edwin Groothuis         Website: http://www.mavetju.org/
edwin@mavetju.org       Weblog:  http://www.mavetju.org/weblog/



--===============0082243947321244034==--


From nicolas.alvarez@gmail.com Sat Oct 18 23:04:20 2008
From: Nicolas Alvarez 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:04:14 -0300
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: <48F760F3.3060009@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6026532515659664694=="

--===============6026532515659664694==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
> Thanx for the link Steffen,
> 
> whenever the Decree is dated on October 15th, since it is published in
> today's (Oct 16th) Boletín Oficial, then it's in force since today...
> we're doing better... it's 2 and 1/2 days in advance (instead of 1 1/2
> like last December)...

This is going to be a disaster again, anyway. The date just arrived, and my
clock didn't change.

I wish I could go and personally slap our president, then tell her that
there is no way in hell tzdata maintainers can get everything set up 
*and* Linux distro maintainers can update the tzdata package in TWO DAYS.

And I'll bet BIG money that Microsoft didn't get an update in time either.



--===============6026532515659664694==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Sat Oct 18 23:21:08 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:21:02 -0200
Message-ID: <48FAA79E.10805@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2100507274655527632=="

--===============2100507274655527632==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Nicolas Alvarez escribió el 19/10/08 01:04:
> This is going to be a disaster again, anyway. The date just arrived, and my
> clock didn't change.
>   
are you in the DST applying region?

what version of tzdata are you using?

what is your /etc/localtime?

my standard tzdata2008h from the ubuntu repositories handled the change
20 minutes ago without a hitch (see the "Date:" header of this
message... it should say "-0200" at the end)...

> I wish I could go and personally slap our president, then tell her that
> there is no way in hell tzdata maintainers can get everything set up 
> *and* Linux distro maintainers can update the tzdata package in TWO DAYS.
>   
I think she couldn't care less about it...

> And I'll bet BIG money that Microsoft didn't get an update in time either.
>   
The Microsoft procedures are hell... checkout the instrucions at
http://www.microsoft.com/argentina/dst/actualizacion.aspx it includes a
link to a 20 page pdf...

It couldn't be any more manual or cumbersome...

Compare that to http://wiki.clueless.com.ar/ActualizarTimezonesConTzdata
... 2 different recipes there... and they cover the whole country, MS
wouldn't tell you what to do if you live in Mendoza (in fact, you have
to select "Buenos Aires" and uncheck the "apply DST rules"... of course
it can't handle correctly times in the past...


-- 
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
All generalizations are false, including this one.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


--===============2100507274655527632==--


From nicolas.alvarez@gmail.com Sun Oct 19 00:13:30 2008
From: Nicolas Alvarez 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:13:26 -0300
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: <48FAA79E.10805@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2499065306501549499=="

--===============2499065306501549499==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez escribió el 19/10/08 01:04:
>> This is going to be a disaster again, anyway. The date just arrived, and
>> my clock didn't change.
>>   
> are you in the DST applying region?

Buenos Aires.

> what version of tzdata are you using?

2008g-0ubuntu0.8.04. I upgraded to version h (from hardy-proposed) and it
still didn't update the KDE clock, and 'date' says I'm in ART, but from a
direct terminal (a real TTY, not an X-based console emulator) it did give
the right time (ARST). I downgraded back to 'g', and actually I still see
the same (ARST on a tty, ART on KDE clock and running 'date' on a terminal
emulator). Do I have to *logout* to see the change?

> what is your /etc/localtime?

What am I supposed to do with it? I ran "cat" and it filled my terminal with
binary junk.

>> And I'll bet BIG money that Microsoft didn't get an update in time
>> either.
>>   
> The Microsoft procedures are hell... checkout the instrucions at
> http://www.microsoft.com/argentina/dst/actualizacion.aspx it includes a
> link to a 20 page pdf...
> 
> It couldn't be any more manual or cumbersome...

I'm wondering what should I tell everyone I know who uses Windows? Clearly I
can't just give them the link to microsoft, since it's such a mess. But I
definitely don't want to let them naively *change the clock*.

(I'm a contributor to an open source software that REALLY doesn't like the
clock changing. We had a user on the forum who apparently used Windows's
calendar as a vacation planner, changed the system date a few days forward,
then back to the right one, and the program completely stopped working.
Presumably would have suddenly started working again after those "few days"
passed.)



--===============2499065306501549499==--


From nicolas.alvarez@gmail.com Sun Oct 19 00:30:39 2008
From: Nicolas Alvarez 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 01:30:40 -0300
Message-ID: 
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8811555507575926345=="

--===============8811555507575926345==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Do I have to *logout* to see the change?

Well, I logged out, restarted X (Ctrl-Alt-Backspace), and the clock went
correct...


--===============8811555507575926345==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Sun Oct 19 00:54:28 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 02:54:21 -0200
Message-ID: <48FABD7D.8030301@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3896488764540852602=="

--===============3896488764540852602==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Nicolas Alvarez escribi=C3=B3 el 19/10/08 02:13:
> Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
>  =20
>> Nicolas Alvarez escribi=C3=B3 el 19/10/08 01:04:
>>    =20
>>> This is going to be a disaster again, anyway. The date just arrived, and
>>> my clock didn't change.
>>>  =20
>>>      =20
>> are you in the DST applying region?
>>    =20
>
> Buenos Aires.
>
>  =20
>> what version of tzdata are you using?
>>    =20
>
> 2008g-0ubuntu0.8.04. I upgraded to version h (from hardy-proposed) and it
> still didn't update the KDE clock, and 'date' says I'm in ART, but from a
> direct terminal (a real TTY, not an X-based console emulator) it did give
> the right time (ARST). I downgraded back to 'g', and actually I still see
> the same (ARST on a tty, ART on KDE clock and running 'date' on a terminal
> emulator). Do I have to *logout* to see the change?
>  =20
Yes :-)

>  =20
>> what is your /etc/localtime?
>>    =20
>
> What am I supposed to do with it? I ran "cat" and it filled my terminal with
> binary junk.
>  =20
You should run a binary compare to
/usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires ... in a terminal:


$ cmp /etc/localtime /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires

if it is silent, it's OK (they're identical)

>  =20
>>> And I'll bet BIG money that Microsoft didn't get an update in time
>>> either.
>>>  =20
>>>      =20
>> The Microsoft procedures are hell... checkout the instrucions at
>> http://www.microsoft.com/argentina/dst/actualizacion.aspx it includes a
>> link to a 20 page pdf...
>>
>> It couldn't be any more manual or cumbersome...
>>    =20
>
> I'm wondering what should I tell everyone I know who uses Windows? Clearly I
> can't just give them the link to microsoft, since it's such a mess. But I
> definitely don't want to let them naively *change the clock*.
>  =20
quick and dirty NO WARRANTIES:

login to an account with administrator rights

1) backup the registry (just in case)

2) download ms-tz-argentina-2008-10-16.reg from
http://wiki.clueless.com.ar/ActualizarTimezonesConTzdata?action=3DAttachFile&=
do=3Dget&target=3Dms-tz-argentina-2008-10-16.reg
(this is a copy I made from the tzupdate.reg referred in MS's pdf
instructions).

3) double-click on it and it will ask if you are sure you want to modify
the registry, say yes (you have a backup anyway, right?

4) double click on the clock in the systray, the "set date and time"
window will open

5) select the "time zone" tab

6) choose "(GMT-03:00) Buenos Aires"

7) make sure the "adjust dst" (or whatever it's called) checkbox in that
window is CHECKED

8) press OK

that should be it (no need to reboot).


> (I'm a contributor to an open source software that REALLY doesn't like the
> clock changing. We had a user on the forum who apparently used Windows's
> calendar as a vacation planner, changed the system date a few days forward,
> then back to the right one, and the program completely stopped working.
> Presumably would have suddenly started working again after those "few days"
> passed.)
>  =20
I don't know anything about this... the pdf speaks quite a lot about
handling outlook which, since I don't use I didn't care... at least
*you* should read the instructions and try to make some sense of it...


--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
I started out with nothing & still have most of it left.
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


--===============3896488764540852602==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Sun Oct 19 00:55:37 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 02:55:34 -0200
Message-ID: <48FABDC6.7040702@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2666059529211935825=="

--===============2666059529211935825==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Nicolas Alvarez escribió el 19/10/08 02:30:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>   
>> Do I have to *logout* to see the change?
>>     
>
> Well, I logged out, restarted X (Ctrl-Alt-Backspace), and the clock went
> correct...
>
>   
I think if you use gdm or kdm, logging out from the gnome or kde session
and logging in again should be enough (but I ain't that sure).

-- 
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The Internet is mightier than the pen.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


--===============2666059529211935825==--


From straen@thorsen.priv.no Mon Oct 20 09:37:12 2008
From: Steffen Thorsen 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:37:04 +0200
Message-ID: <48FC8980.7070202@thorsen.priv.no>
In-Reply-To: <48F89E78.10402@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0978347221086354667=="

--===============0978347221086354667==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mariano Absatz - El Baby wrote:
> Now officially, the Nation exceptuated 12 Provinces from the Decree=20
> 1693 via a new Decree 1705 that appeared today in the Bolet=C3=ADn Oficial:
>
> http://www.boletinoficial.gov.ar/Bora.Portal/CustomControls/PdfContent.aspx=
?fp=3D17102008&pi=3D1&pf=3D1&s=3D0&sec=3D01=20
>
Despite the decree - the Jujuy province decided not to observe DST.

Some sources:
http://www.infobae.com/contenidos/409849-100894-0-Jujuy-decidi%C3%B3-no-cambi=
ar-su-huso-horario-esta-noche
http://www.lmneuquen.com.ar/noticias/2008/10/18/7937.php

Regards,
Steffen - timeanddate.com


--===============0978347221086354667==--


From baby@baby.com.ar Mon Oct 20 09:46:01 2008
From: Mariano Absatz - El Baby 
To: tz@iana.org
Subject: Re: Argentina DST blues
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:45:56 -0200
Message-ID: <48FC8B94.9050306@baby.com.ar>
In-Reply-To: <48F8AEC5.3050802@baby.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6555970564378323357=="

--===============6555970564378323357==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi there, again...

whereas the National Decree from last Friday didn't include Jujuy among=20
the Provinces excepted from the DST change and that was the information=20
in Saturday morning papers=20
(http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=3D1060668), on Saturday=20
afternoon the news was that Jujuy would NOT apply DST on Sunday=20
(http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=3D1060788), which was=20
confirmed in the Sunday morning printed edition=20
(http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=3D1060982).

In the Jujuy Government's portal (http://www.jujuy.gov.ar/) there's a=20
small reference to this in the Government activity section=20
(http://www.jujuy.gov.ar/index2/gobernacion/) but the "read more" link=20
points to another press release...

I managed to follow their naming logic and found the correct press=20
release at=20
http://www.jujuy.gov.ar/index2/partes_prensa/18_10_08/235-181008.doc=20
(it's a Word document).


The enclosed patch does the following:

References Decrees 1693 and 1705 from the Argentina's Bolet=C3=ADn Oficial=20
and the press release from the Province of Jujuy.

Splits America/Argentina/Cordoba into America/Argentina/Salta, adjusting=20
LMT for the latter for dates up to 1894-10-31

Adjusts the following zones not to apply DST from now on:
America/Argentina/Salta
America/Argentina/Jujuy
America/Argentina/Catamarca
America/Argentina/La_Rioja
America/Argentina/San_Juan
America/Argentina/Mendoza
America/Argentina/San_Luis
America/Argentina/Rio_Gallegos
America/Argentina/Ushuaia

Adds the new zone into zone.tab

Reorders America/Argentina/* within zone.tab according to the=20
instructions within the file (geographical sense / most populous first)

Reorders America/Argentina/* within southamerica to have the same order=20
as within zone.tab

I also uploaded a tz file for Argentina with this info at
http://wiki.clueless.com.ar/ActualizarTimezonesConTzdata?action=3DAttachFile&=
do=3Dget&target=3Dargentina-baby-2008-10-19.zoneinfo=20


There are instructions (in Spanish) to download and compile it at
http://wiki.clueless.com.ar/ActualizarTimezonesConTzdata#parche_baby_2008_10 =






--=20
Mariano Absatz - "El Baby"
baby@baby.com.ar
www.clueless.com.ar


-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
Maintenance-free: When it breaks, it can't be fixed...
-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=
=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org


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--===============6555970564378323357==--


